Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

macrumors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 638 posts

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#361

Post by bokohut »

So many entrepreneurs "drinking the kool aid" building their great idea that depends on others platforms of which on the surface appears warm and receptive however welcome to the real world which is cold and shunning. If you do not own your hardware and software systems your weakest links are the 3rd party providers which do not even know your name.

Interesting again to see that "fees" started the core battle fight. Visa and MasterCard, along with other brands, are acutely aware of the coming payments swing and continue on buying sprees to protect their toll road. Whether it be crypto, RTP, FedNow or remains to be credit card is yet to be known however these events and more will continue to push businesses to bring payments in house cutting out more and more middlemen. This is long overdue.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#362

Post by jowsie »

butterisgood wrote: post #307
411111111111111 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously doubt that. Apple hardware has always been more about being a status symbol then utility. To the average Apple user it's just not cool enough if it isn't availble on Apple hardware. Even looking back I'm still surprised how effectively Apple polarized people into fans vs haters after steve jobs rejoined back then...

I doubt you know what you’re talking about. It’s never been about a status symbol for me. I don’t regret switching to Apple 20 years ago and the very little amount of time I spend fighting the OS to do what I need it to on a daily basis. If anything, I have to put up with schmucks telling me I bought apple hardware for looks more than I enjoy any sort of status symbol for owning it.

You might have been the average apple user 20 years ago, but times have changed.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#363

Post by nodamage »

xmprt wrote: post #144
thdrdt wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they should first fight it before breaking it.

You can't sue someone unless you can prove damages. There's no way to fight this without breaking the rule first. I'm not a lawyer though so maybe there's an exception to this rule.

I'm not sure why people keep repeating this. Epic already had standing to sue from the $300 million that Apple has collected in Fortnite IAP fees.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#364

Post by bryan_w »

fxtentacle wrote: post #205
aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

I can't help but think that the whole thing is playing out exactly like Epic had hoped. After Apple kicked Fortnite from the iOS store, there was an outcry of people who had previously spent money on it through Apple's in-app purchases and now wanted a refund. Some of those users switched to playing Fortnite on a laptop or Android phone instead, but of course they were still using Sign in with Apple if they had origi…

>Epic now has a very good reason to collect a working email address from every past iOS customer

Not just epic but any business really that obtains most of their customer base through sign in with apple.

Losing your entire customer base because of making apple mad is a risk that most businesses will now be unwilling to take.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#365

Post by Slartie »

Dayshine wrote: post #328
drenvuk wrote: post #260

I don't get why on Hackernews anyone would ever defend Apple here. Regardless of whether they're right to do this if Epic wins their court case against them we stand to gain the most benefit. Apple's incredibly high walled garden is honestly the scariest thing for me. If I develop for windows I can simply distribute my application on my site easily. With Android I can tell people to download from F-Droid if necessary…

This community is dominated by people who work for unicorns, believe their company is almost a unicorn, or dream they could one day work for one. As much as we deny it, companies only tend to get that big through anti-consumer behaviour, walled gardens, vendor lock-in, etc. When your life's purpose revolves around the absolute power your dream requires, of course you will defend it. The fact that allowing other compa…

I think you are spot on, but that your explanation is only one half of the truth. The other is that a lot of people in this community despise "manual intervention" into algorithmic systems, as in lawyers and judges ordering Apple to change their perfectly integrated, fully controlled app store deployment system, which radiates some kind of "elegance", especially when compared to Google's less well integrated (and less sealed) system. It is a bit like the fascination for smart contracts - purely algorithmic elegance, ideally without any human intervention, is considered "beautiful" and there is an urge to defend such a thing against "dirty" human influence - especially if those humans are of a different profession than we are (like, lawyers, or economists, all those non-technical people who don't understand all this stuff anyway).

Of course the truth is that smart contracts are close to useless without human intervention (see: the oracle problem), their inability to be changed is more problematic than useful because humans make mistakes writing them or change their mind later or are forced by law to change it, and Apple's app store system is already riddled with exceptions for entities that even Apple can't deny too many wishes (see: exceptions for Amazon) and weird constructs that draw artificial, blurred and very much human-defined lines in order to fix contradicting or nonsensical rules (see: the so-called "reader" app exceptions). But all of this is easily ignored when necessary to construct a seemingly contradiction-free world view and picking a "side". Also a very human imperfection...

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#366

Post by losingthefight »

lolsal wrote: post #274
drenvuk wrote: post #260

I don't get why on Hackernews anyone would ever defend Apple here. Regardless of whether they're right to do this if Epic wins their court case against them we stand to gain the most benefit. Apple's incredibly high walled garden is honestly the scariest thing for me. If I develop for windows I can simply distribute my application on my site easily. With Android I can tell people to download from F-Droid if necessary…

> Epic caused their own pain here, sure but What other way can we actually get a semi open platform that we're not being taxed on? As an Apple user, the whole point here is that it's not an open system. I just can't get riled up over a developer not following the rules of a platform. I use Apple because the Apple ecosystem is valuable to me - the store, the SSO, the Apple ID, the UI/UX, the hardware - all of it. I do…

I see this argument a lot, and I think it's fine if not a tad flawed. If that's what you want, you can keep it. I don't really see anyone saying "kill the review process" and "open everything by default". This would all go away if Apple simply made it a setting to allow other IPAs AND allowed outside payment / subscription management. Keep the garden if you want it. Don't enable outside installs. If you don't want to support a company not using Apple Pay and the like, then don't! You're the consumer! The difference here is Apple doesn't give you a choice. Even if the developer does all the legwork to build a payment system (for example, they have a web app as well) and market the app on their own, they have to give Apple their cut. You don't get a choice and neither does the developer.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#367

Post by sosborn »

DennisAleynikov wrote: post #341
dmitriid wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think Epic absolutely needs other major game studios, and major software companies, to join in their protest to effect the desired change. Would Epic be willing to lead the fight against consoles as well (they charge 30%, too)? Oh, right...

oh man people assume they aren't fighting the consoles clearly have not read the lawsuits themselves epic is proposing a 12% rate to all the stores and asked Google for it as well, they have fought playstation policies against crossplay and won in the past.

That would make this super interesting: https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/9/21318978/sony-epic-games-f...

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#368

Post by ribosometronome »

asddubs wrote: post #251
ribosometronome wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consoles that have had easy access to that have historically not done well.

doesn't the xbox have a way to sideload apps?

Xbox's Dev Mode is a bit complicated and limits a lot of functionality of the console. I think there's a good argument that it's actually easier and less limiting to side load an app using Cydia Impactor, Xcode or AltStore with an iPhone.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#369

Post by Razengan »

aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

I disagree with everything you've said, as a user and a developer (who used to be on the Microsoft boat for far longer than on Apple's).

As a user, I desire a curated platform.

As a developer, I want to have access to all the users of that platform by publishing on just one store.

> Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome

> it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth

Because many consumers agree with how Apple does things.

Why is that simple fact so offensive for some of you?

Nobody is being forced to buy Apple products or develop for them, they choose to.

Microsoft and Google, on the other hand, are much much harder to avoid even if I don't choose to directly buy any of their products.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#370

Post by colejohnson66 »

jhatemyjob wrote: post #280
colejohnson66 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video game consoles (in terms of XBox and PS) are nothing more than same spec’d computers. They both (PS4 and up and XB1 and up) run on x86-64 for crying out loud. They just don’t look like a computer (in terms of openness), but the homebrew community has shown that they can be. So the comparison is pretty apt; Some are claiming phones are computers now, so why aren’t actual computers that have been walled up any dif…

What are you saying here exactly? arm64 CPUs aren't real CPUs?

No, I’m saying that video game consoles are a very apt comparison because they’re x86. I made no mention of ARM or whether Apple is right or wrong.
Post reply on HN