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Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

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Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#831

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the reason I'm all for socializing child-care. Certain companies have the budget to pull out certain form of "socialized" day-care by purchasing child care from suppliers but most companies can't do that. The state should do that.

What's the point if things getting closed is for social distancing? Maybe I don't follow but I don't even see how money can solve that besides parents not just working and taking care of their kids.

If we'd set an expectation that the government provided childcare, then it would be relatively easy to turn that into the government covering necessary time off for childcare etc.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should procreate if they want to and not as a service to society. It’s ok. I think we will manage at 8 billion. You have people who essentially outsourced parenting to have a career and that’s not a ‘sacrifice’. It’s a choice.

It's not that simple. Will we manage at 8 billion but with double the amount of retirees to take care of?

We will likely see a decrease in population..we should be ok with 1-3 billion. In 1600, world population was 500 million. 3.5 billion in 1975. Fears of human extinction is unfounded. However an uninhabitable planet due to exponential consumption is a real risk for future populations. Better to be a healthy billion than a starving dying 15 billion strong species.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#833
If employees of tech companies have to argue about whether parents can be afforded concession due to the pandemic situation/home-schooling/etc, I wonder what improvement in quality of life that technology has actually yielded. Is this a US-specific phenomenon?

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#834

What I find short sighted about these policies are they don't realize that people without children can also feel stressed and need more time off. e.g. if you're single during this time, you are completely isolated from the world, and your colleagues. This can be extremely difficult mentally and on an individual level can be much harder than just someone with a kid. These policies shouldn't be "oh if you have kids you…

I've been encouraging my team (parents or not) to just take time off. The singles are suffering from essentially cabin fever given their typically smaller living accommodations and now missing social support. The parents are distracted, yes, but the singles/childless seem to be burning out way faster.

I was definitely in this camp earlier this year. I had traveled solo to La Palma in the Canary Islands (part of Spain) in March to enjoy some of the most scenic outdoors anywhere during the day, and work remotely in the evenings. When lockdown occurred, I was boxed up all alone in an apartment with a nice view of the beach 25m from my window, but I was unable to go outside for exercise. [1] I got grumpy and irritated and anxious from being so isolated very quickly.

[1] https://photos.app.goo.gl/VgFmChqpErAPsMrA9

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#835
post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy Empathy needs to go both ways. Childless employees tend to be younger and less experienced, so they often are paid less than those with kids. If you're a junior who needs to work 80 hour weeks to pick up the slack from seniors with kids, but you're also paid less, it's understandable that you would be angry.

No single employee at a company is productive enough that them leaving literally doubles a person's workload, especially when most people aren't actually productive for an entire day and there is a lot of evidence that 4 day work weeks are just as productive. If this environment did exist, the employee should quit unless they are making A LOT of money.

But countless employees have such a low productivity, they can double it and still not reach their peak capacity. I know many developers that spend the majority of their work days just staring out of the window.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#836
post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A BIG chunk of all that drama is due to the US social safety net not including childcare. That's the thing disturbing thing about these stories: employees are turned against each other when it's a) the company; and b) your tax dollars, not providing any kind of built-in childcare for society. In France, kids can go to preschool and have pre- and post- school childcare, which has to be paid, but it's only like $500/mo…

The problem with that is two-fold: first, the median childcare worker is less concerned with the child’s long-term success than is the median parent (that’s not a slight against childcare workers!); second, that the presence of state childcare makes it less competitive for parents to spend time taking care of their children themselves rather than to work and earn money, which means more and more folks are likely to u…

> The problem with that is two-fold: first, the median childcare worker is less concerned with the child’s long-term success than is the median parent

Two of my siblings are primary school teachers (that is, for kids who come right out of kindergarten; not sure how this is called in the US/elsewhere), and from the stories I've heard from them, they'd argue heavily against your points.

I think you're underestimating how many families are completely dysfunctional, or where the parents are overwhelmed with taking care of their children, even under normal situations, let alone during the current pandemic. For example; where I live, it's unfortunately still often the case that schools do not take care of lunch for the kids (they are supposed to go home during lunch breaks) and the amount of times where teachers have to wonder whether the kids had anything to eat at all for lunch (sometimes because nobody is at home and they didn't feel hungry at the time or had only junk available) is astounding.

Childcare workers are trained and certified for their job (that's at least the case in my country); and yes, while they have many kids around and thus might not have as much interest in an individual kid as a parent might have, they at least have to uphold a certain level of competence in order to keep their jobs (essentially, like the rest of us - be good enough at your job or search something else), while a parent stays a parent, no matter how bad they are at it.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#837
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't fully agree with you. Back when I worked in retail or fast food, smokers could step out for a 5 minute smoke break every once in a while. As a non-smoker, I wasn't allowed to just sit there for 5 minutes. At the end of the day, we got paid the same, but smokers got 30 minutes off, courtesy of the non-smokers who picked up the slack. Likewise, parents are excused from work because they have children. I fully a…

>they chose to have children, and I chose not to Up until the pandemic, my work schedule had almost never been affected by me being parent in any way. I chose to have kids knowing that my wife and I would be able to continue working without this significantly impacting our jobs (after the first several weeks after they were born, of course), and that has always been true until this. You are acting as though parents f…

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Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#838
post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is called life. There is no vacation when you have a sick spouse, or bought a new house, or are in a car accident. Your job shouldn't be your break, regardless of your situation. My wife is at a FAANG company currently covering for 4 people who all get double digit weeks off because they chose to have children. Does she get any time off for literally working 18 hour days 7 days a week? No of course not.

> Your job shouldn't be your break, regardless of your situation. If it's less stressful that the ambient level in your life, then it's a break. Why shouldn't it be?

Even before COVID, work was my sanity time—my sanctuary. A place with clear goals, a structured path to convert effort into success, a place where I am relatively respected and know what I’m doing. Home with children is more of a messy, emotional, soft-skill-driven, chaotic zoo. Getting a little time off to do more of that is not really a vacation.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#839
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then is it cool if I skip a few meetings to volunteer to help the homeless? We already heavily subsidise child-rearing through taxes and other benefits. As I said elsewhere, there are mechanisms for supporting parents already. If you tried to let any other charitable endeavour take over your work schedule, you wouldn't expect your compensation to remain unaffected. I'm not resentful at parents. It just seems complete…

> Then is it cool if I skip a few meetings to volunteer to help the homeless? That's the thing -- you won't actually go volunteer with the homeless. (Or at least, 99% of us wouldn't.) But parents actually have to change those diapers. If there's a little kid running around in the background of that Zoom call, someone is doing a lot of hard work to keep the kid alive. And unlike volunteering at the homeless shelter, t…

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Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#840
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, people without children are told (or required) to pick up the workload left behind when the coworkers having children taking (multiple) weeks off. For once or twice that might be okay, but if became a chronic problem, no wonder they are not happy.

Would anyone hate to "pickup workload" from anyone else for any other reason? I don't know: maybe colleague goes on PTO, maybe colleague is sick, maybe colleague isn't as experienced on doing something and takes longer, maybe colleague has a disability and not everything is in place to offset the handicap...etc If the problem is chronic isn't that a stronger indication that you're facing a management problem?

Bonus points for comparing parenthood with a disability. I am surprised you haven't been ripped into pieces yet.
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