Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19 • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#221

Post by gimmeThaBeet » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

gones00n wrote: post #161

mc32 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Parents are making sacrifices which benefit society as a whole. Those children the parents are taking care of now will be the ones who will provide for the one complaining now via taxes as well as services rendered to them. If anything, companies should be providing more childcare so that more women (as well as some men) will have less of a burden balancing career and caregiving. I see these people as being…

"Benefit society as a whole" sounds good in theory but rarely works in practice because people are inherently self-interested. A simple counterargument is that someone's kids may not turn out at all to be productive members of society. Fundamentally corporations are different to the government. So whereas government can tax and progressively tax to soften wealth inequalities, corporations ultimately need to be profit…

Every productive member of society is someone's kid, whether they're home grown or an immigrant.

You don't see some bad apples, declare your orchard blighted, and raze the whole thing. Not every apple is going to be perfect.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#222

Post by kenhwang » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

aaomidi wrote: post #152

What I find short sighted about these policies are they don't realize that people without children can also feel stressed and need more time off. e.g. if you're single during this time, you are completely isolated from the world, and your colleagues. This can be extremely difficult mentally and on an individual level can be much harder than just someone with a kid. These policies shouldn't be "oh if you have kids you…

I've been encouraging my team (parents or not) to just take time off. The singles are suffering from essentially cabin fever given their typically smaller living accommodations and now missing social support. The parents are distracted, yes, but the singles/childless seem to be burning out way faster.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#223

Post by gus_massa » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #171

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

> the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. Unpopular opinion: We should not be rewarding or elevating people for having unprotected sex without the support network to take care of their children in the event they are unable to attend school. There's a thousand reasons a child might not be ab…

We had a 24 hours electricity outage last week. (Some problem with an electric wire in the whole block after a heavy rain). Should I buy an electricity generator just in case?

I expect to be able to send the kids to school, perhaps at least a few hours per day. It is impossible now.

An in case the school is not working, I can send them with one of the grandmas or the other. But we are currently in the peak of the pandemic in Buenos Aires and it is a bad idea because they are old so they are in the health risk group. I think it is even illegal here due to the quarantine, but it is a bad idea anyway.

We take turns with my wife to take care of the kids and try to organize the activities, for example to avoid having two Zoom meetings at the same time.

Luckily we can arrange some activities to do them when the kids are sleeping or at least quiet, like preparing / checking / grading midterms at weird hour like 11pm.

One of the problems is that in the middle of a Zoom meeting one of the kids may appear and say hi, or ask to change the tv channel, or perhaps some food, or just hug me for 5 minutes. Luckily in most of my meetings I don't need a 100% of concentration, so a kid going around is not so bad.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#224

Post by Swenrekcah » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:27 PM UTC

fizixer wrote: post #115

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

I have two babies: - My pure math research (nothing to do with my day job). Possibly resulting in a part-time PhD program. - My financial portfolio (again not related to my day job). These two babies of mine are as precious and valuable to me (maybe more) than your human babies are to you. Oh, and they take way more time. Do I get extra benefits as a parent of two babies?

Analytical as you surely are, you might notice that your babies are, in fact, not babies in the sense of the word under discussion. Therefore you do not get PTO for growing them.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#225

Post by CydeWeys » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:27 PM UTC

gones00n wrote: post #161

mc32 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Parents are making sacrifices which benefit society as a whole. Those children the parents are taking care of now will be the ones who will provide for the one complaining now via taxes as well as services rendered to them. If anything, companies should be providing more childcare so that more women (as well as some men) will have less of a burden balancing career and caregiving. I see these people as being…

"Benefit society as a whole" sounds good in theory but rarely works in practice because people are inherently self-interested. A simple counterargument is that someone's kids may not turn out at all to be productive members of society. Fundamentally corporations are different to the government. So whereas government can tax and progressively tax to soften wealth inequalities, corporations ultimately need to be profit…

The benefit to society as a whole is that human society literally continues to exist. If no one has children then society ceases to exist because there isn't a next generation. It's hard to think of anything that benefits society more than having children to comprise the next generation of society.

And you know what's really bad for corporate profitability? Not having any workers in a few decades because conditions were such that no one now can afford to have the next generation of workers. The more people there are the better as far as companies are concerned. That's more potential workers and more potential consumers.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#226

Post by falcolas » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

lrem wrote: post #202

falcolas wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. Unpopular opinion: We should not be rewarding or elevating people for having unprotected sex without the support network to take care of their children in the event they are unable to attend school. There's a thousand reasons a child might not be ab…

Have it crossed your mind that maybe these people had the time and means to raise the kids, until a global pandemic has broken the plan a, the commercial plan b, the social plan c and the plan d? Because at the time the schools closed, the after school care also closed, people were told to not leave their kids with friends and no matter what never ever let them any near grandparents? Or have you totally missed that p…

Extended families have been isolating together since the beginning; Never were families discourages from isolating together.

Visiting with friends (groups under 10 people) while following safe interaction guidelines was also not discouraged.

EDIT: This is from the point of view of someone in the US; international laws vary as pointed out by replies.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#227

Post by xwdv » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

I do not agree. I specifically chose not to have children because I knew of the burdens they would place on my career.

Those who decided to have children should not get treated any differently. They knew what they were signing up for, they do not get to have things both ways.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#228

Post by ithinkso » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

pojzon wrote: post #109

codemac wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cancer patient gets extra time off so why don't I? In my experience they actually don't, and they aren't paid during the same period either. They are forced to take medical leave, and receive significantly reduced pay.

> and receive significantly reduced pay. That depends on the country you work in. In Poland you get 80% of normal pay which tbh is a really good deal.

And only 30days/yr of this is from the employer's pocket, the rest is from the state which is also a good deal the other way around.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#229

Post by eanzenberg » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

kevstev wrote: post #140

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

As a mid 30s childless man I completely agree. We essentially sent people home on a Friday, told them to figure out a work from home situation, and then they were told welp your kids aren't going to school either, and whatever childcare you had lined up has now vanished too- and this is all happening in the course of a few days at most. So now you have kids to worry about all day, home schooling to oversee, focusing…

How do social services help? The article is about parents with jobs adjusting or continuing to adjust to working from home with kids there. Social services as you listed are primarily for people who aren’t working.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#230

Post by rayiner » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #213

ng12 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I've seen is the complaints are largely coming from couples that want to raise kids while both parents work full time jobs. Asking for fewer hours so you can continue that lifestyle is asking your employer and fellow employees to subsidize your second income, not your ability to have and raise children. My coworkers with SAH spouses aren't feeling the burn anywhere near as badly -- it's just an extended summer f…

In modern society it's basically required that both parents work full-time jobs. It's not the 50s anymore; you can't support an entire household with children on one income. So you can't have the expectation that one of the parents give up a large chunk of their salary just to have kids. If you do structure society in this way then you get rapidly declining birth rates and very bad long-term population demographic pr…

It’s not just the cost of childcare. Since divorce became acceptable, it became a huge liability for women to exit the workforce and permanently give up earning power to raise children. I’ve seen this first hand in my family and it’s really difficult.