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Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

cnet.com

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Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#211

Post by triceratops »

goldenchrome wrote: post #84
Ductapemaster wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t have kids, but this strikes me as lacking empathy in the current climate. Choosing to have kids or not pre-COVID came with a set of expectations, risks, and choices that were fairly well defined. Parental leave, childcare, proximity to family and friends, school, increased costs, medical treatemtn, etc. Parents could evaluate those based on what their employer offered and the experiences of their peers going…

A pandemic is exactly how life goes. Barely more than one lifetime ago we had the Spanish Flu, WW1, WW2, multiple market crashes, and so on. Global warming is likely to cause more situations like those in the coming years. Much of this pandemic is overrated. My friends and family aren’t socially distanced. Parks and beaches are actually open. Vacations are very easy and very popular. Social interaction is not a risk…

> My friends and family aren’t socially distanced...Social interaction is not a risk for the vast majority of healthy people.

Have you considered that this attitude might be the reason this pandemic has so affected the US in particular?

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#212

Post by celticninja »

ll931110 wrote: post #12
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

The problem is, people without children are told (or required) to pick up the workload left behind when the coworkers having children taking (multiple) weeks off. For once or twice that might be okay, but if became a chronic problem, no wonder they are not happy.

That's definitely employer specific. That's has not been the case where I work.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#213

Post by CydeWeys »

ng12 wrote: post #147
mc32 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Parents are making sacrifices which benefit society as a whole. Those children the parents are taking care of now will be the ones who will provide for the one complaining now via taxes as well as services rendered to them. If anything, companies should be providing more childcare so that more women (as well as some men) will have less of a burden balancing career and caregiving. I see these people as being…

What I've seen is the complaints are largely coming from couples that want to raise kids while both parents work full time jobs. Asking for fewer hours so you can continue that lifestyle is asking your employer and fellow employees to subsidize your second income, not your ability to have and raise children. My coworkers with SAH spouses aren't feeling the burn anywhere near as badly -- it's just an extended summer f…

In modern society it's basically required that both parents work full-time jobs. It's not the 50s anymore; you can't support an entire household with children on one income. So you can't have the expectation that one of the parents give up a large chunk of their salary just to have kids. If you do structure society in this way then you get rapidly declining birth rates and very bad long-term population demographic problems (which many countries are already dealing with). Personally I think the best solution would be to have universal child care going down to age 0 (rather than just age 5 as it is now), which is common in many other countries. Because of efficiencies of scale, that's cheaper than subsidizing all the foregone salary required by parents all individually giving up one of their two household jobs to devote to child-rearing.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#215

Post by majormajor »

pojzon wrote: post #109
codemac wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cancer patient gets extra time off so why don't I? In my experience they actually don't, and they aren't paid during the same period either. They are forced to take medical leave, and receive significantly reduced pay.

> and receive significantly reduced pay. That depends on the country you work in. In Poland you get 80% of normal pay which tbh is a really good deal.

That's not a "really good deal." Do 20% of your normal expenses magically go away? And if you have to spend any extra money of your own for care or related things (maybe none of your old clothes fit anymore!) it gets worse. Plus, you know, there's the HORRIBLY ILL part of it.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#216

Post by ajford »

gones00n wrote: post #137
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

I wonder why tech companies aren't allowing the option to change from full-time (100%) to part-time (60%), while retaining all the benefits especially healthcare in the U.S. This can help ensure that everyone is being measured fairly - for example parents can opt to change to 60% and their role/responsibilities will be adjusted accordingly. Management will be able to hire to fill the gaps. Conversely if you're a pare…

So it might depend on the individual and company in question, but not everyone is "loosing" time parenting, and in many cases the allowance they're seeking is the ability to flex their schedule so they can do something like a 4hr schedule in the AM and a 4hr schedule in the late afternoon/evening. They're not seeking fewer hours for the same pay, but the ability to work their 8 hours when they can instead of a standard 9-5 schedule.

Yes, this may not work for everyone, but in plenty of situations there's no reason that should be a difficult ask. As long as I complete my sprint work, why should it matter whether I wrote that code or report or graph between 12-4PM or 6-10PM?

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#217

Post by evan_ »

luckylion wrote: post #121
marbletiles wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they should be unhappy about that: at their managers. Not at their colleagues attempting to care for children during a pandemic. I've heard a related thing about US workers resenting colleagues for taking paid time off for similar reasons, and it's just as weird to my European eyes. The difference a decent labour movement (or the legacy of one) can make to industrial relations is stark

But they are unhappy about their managers' decision to favor their colleagues. If you give a tax rebate to anyone who's last name starts with A, are the other people not allowed to be annoyed, given that they have to pay more taxes to make up for the rebate? "Why can't you just be happy for the A people?" feels weird. Just pay those not taking time off for the time they would've taken off. It's not a complicated conc…

If there are fewer people working the managers should be scheduling less work.

In your “tax rebate” example you should be upset with whoever decided to issue rebates in that way, not the people who received the rebate.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#218

Post by satyrnein »

ng12 wrote: post #147
mc32 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Parents are making sacrifices which benefit society as a whole. Those children the parents are taking care of now will be the ones who will provide for the one complaining now via taxes as well as services rendered to them. If anything, companies should be providing more childcare so that more women (as well as some men) will have less of a burden balancing career and caregiving. I see these people as being…

What I've seen is the complaints are largely coming from couples that want to raise kids while both parents work full time jobs. Asking for fewer hours so you can continue that lifestyle is asking your employer and fellow employees to subsidize your second income, not your ability to have and raise children. My coworkers with SAH spouses aren't feeling the burn anywhere near as badly -- it's just an extended summer f…

This is a fair point that I had not considered. The more positive spin is that it's a sacrifice to move toward an egalitarian society where women have the same career options as men.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#219

Post by kube-system »

x87678r wrote: post #191
kube-system wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you (legally) differentiate between people who put in less work because of their children and those who put in less work because they underperform?

It is legal and normal to discriminate on the basis on how much work you do. I think you can even legally discriminate on whether someone is a parent - protected classes are Age, Race, National Origin, Religious Beliefs, Gender, Disability, Pregnancy and Veteran Status.

You are correct, under federal law, and for non-government jobs.

But, states and localities often add protected classes beyond federal requirements. As has the executive branch of the US government for federal jobs.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#220

Post by triceratops »

analog31 wrote: post #94

Come to the Midwest. Here's how we do it. First of all, you can't retire at 30 on an entry level engineer salary (poetic license taken). Second, there are no child care benefits. Instead, parents with kids split things up. One parent (usually the one who was earning less anyway) dials down their career, perhaps by going part time. The other parent dials up, by competing for promotions. For instance, it's almost like…

After hearing that, I really don't think I want to come to the Midwest :-P (to work, that is).
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