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Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

bbc.com

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Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#141

Post by roywiggins »

sneak wrote: post #59
ogogmad wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The attempted murder of Sergei Skripal by Russia is a conspiracy theory? Who else would poison him with a nerve agent? Who else would have the motive? Who'd have access to such an agent?

All of the evidence that it was Russia is entirely circumstantial, if we're being strictly accurate here, which is... convenient. On the other hand, exactly zero other groups seem to be using those nerve agents to assassinate people, so it's a great calling card if they wish to discourage others from following in the victims' footsteps.

Circumstantial evidence can be extremely powerful. There's no conflict between saying that the evidence is both extremely strong and also circumstantial. There's video of two Russians walking around Salisbury; there's an interview with them on Russian state TV where they totally fail to give a coherent explanation of their movements as revealed by CCTV on the day of the poisoning. And they traveled to the UK under fake IDs.

I don't know what other conclusion to draw.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#142

Post by odiroot »

lazyjones wrote: post #97

As far as I'm concerned, the Germans are about as trustworthy as Russia. They are currently closing the investigation around the Breitscheidplatz[1] terror attack, which has uncovered massive tampering with evidence and more open questions than answers. And let's not forget their history of false flag attacks.[2] Most of you will likely disagree, based on their current public image vs. Russia's, but ask yourselves wh…

> As far as I'm concerned, the Germans are about as trustworthy as Russia. They are currently closing the investigation around the Breitscheidplatz[1] terror attack

That Islamist attack was very inconvenient for many powers that be, in Germany. Including the media. It has been quickly swept under a rug.

Living in Berlin you could barely notice, it ever happened at all. There was even some strong opposition to putting a monument/memorial to the victims.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#144

Post by [deleted] »

sneak wrote: post #59
ogogmad wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The attempted murder of Sergei Skripal by Russia is a conspiracy theory? Who else would poison him with a nerve agent? Who else would have the motive? Who'd have access to such an agent?

All of the evidence that it was Russia is entirely circumstantial, if we're being strictly accurate here, which is... convenient. On the other hand, exactly zero other groups seem to be using those nerve agents to assassinate people, so it's a great calling card if they wish to discourage others from following in the victims' footsteps.

[deleted]

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#145

Post by lazyjones »

siliconvalley1 wrote: post #68
rosywoozlechan wrote: post #40

I wouldn't be so quick to point the finger at Putin or a government conspiracy personally. There are a lot of powerful billionaires in Russia who exist thanks to Putin and it seems plausible that one of them, given their vested interest in keeping their patron in charge, might have poisoned the man.

And that billionaire just happens to have access to a Russian Military Chemical Weapon?

You may have missed that the elusive WireCard CEO Jan Marsalek had the formula too. It's not a huge secret that random billionaires can't buy. Some people apparently believe the spin from some low-quality media that using or accusing of using Novitchok is basically proof Russia did it. It says more about their naivety than anything else.

https://www.ft.com/content/941a9a2e-88df-4a66-9b3c-670bb7eb4...

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#146

Post by bigdict »

ceejayoz wrote: post #109
bigdict wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is they?

A Russian defector, poisoned by Russian intelligence agents using a chemical only the Russians have? Who do you think?

I don’t know. What about you?

Just say it. No need for this circuitous intimation.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#147

Post by aphextron »

chinhodado wrote: post #17

Maybe I'm too skeptical, but this seems a bit too obvious to me. Why would you try to poison someone with no real threat to you and risk him becoming a martyr, using a method that immediately brings you to mind, with a nerve agent that is also strongly linked to you?

>Why would you try to poison someone with no real threat to you and risk him becoming a martyr, using a method that immediately brings you to mind, with a nerve agent that is also strongly linked to you?

They want everyone to know they did it. That's Putin's MO. Everyone knows he did it, and he knows everyone knows he did it. But there's still enough plausible deniability that it would be hard to conclusively prove. And ultimately he has his finger on the world's largest arsenal of nuclear ICBMs, so he knows there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it. It's the same as the mafia leaving a severed horse head in your bed. It sends a message.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#148

Post by wesleywt »

geogra4 wrote: post #76
ffdjjjffjj wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German elections are considerably more legitimate. For one, opposition politicians aren’t poisoned.

What party is navalny a member of? How many seats do they have?

Does it matter? Elections in Russia is not free and fair. Tyrants rarely are good for a country. Sad to see that the Russian people will have more suffering in their future.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#149

Post by odiroot »

osipov wrote: post #108
lazyjones wrote: post #97

As far as I'm concerned, the Germans are about as trustworthy as Russia. They are currently closing the investigation around the Breitscheidplatz[1] terror attack, which has uncovered massive tampering with evidence and more open questions than answers. And let's not forget their history of false flag attacks.[2] Most of you will likely disagree, based on their current public image vs. Russia's, but ask yourselves wh…

It is remarkable that Germans for the most part are unwilling to look for signs of corruption in their government. I recall the conversations that I've had with regular German working stiffs around 2012-2014, chatting about the new Berlin Airport and how that showed symptoms of government corruption. The good folks of Germany started admitting to the possibility of corruption only when the media in Germany began to i…

Brandenburg airport, Wirecard, gas deals with Russia, diesel emissions scandal and probably much more of these high-profile cases I cannot even recall now.

Indeed, there have to be systemic issues.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#150

Post by chundicus »

lazyjones wrote: post #139
chundicus wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A NATO member is as trustworthy as a country actively trying to destabilize democracy around the world? One who has brazenly done this sort of attack before and has a very obvious recent history of silencing dissidents? I'm all for some healthy skepticism, but this is ridiculous.

A NATO member currently run by someone who grew up in a Stalinist dictatorship, with many members of the party that ruled said dictatorship currently in office around the country. > One who has brazenly done this sort of attack before and has a very obvious recent history of silencing dissidents? It is just "obvious" if you are a firm believer in accusations made by the "West".

Okay I'm sure there is always some post-Soviet era bias being applied, but does that change anything substantially? Did the "West" also lie about this Novichok attack on UK soil? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_...

Your baseless tinfoil skepticism is extremely useful to fascists like Putin who thrive off of spreading disinformation and uncertainty.

Do Western countries lie to benefit themselves geopolitically? Of course they do, but let's apply Occam's Razor here and not go looking for a global conspiracy when the answer and motivations are so blatant.

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