Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993 • Hacker News Board

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#151

Post by ntsplnkv2 » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 9:08 PM UTC

btilly wrote: post #44

The problem with the government regulation solution is that the universities will be motivated to get their people into the position of being regulators, so that they can have the government guarantee them as much money as possible. A much simpler solution is to say that every year the most expensive 10% of schools are denied federal loans, with a sliding cap on loans over the next 30% down to unlimited loans to 60%…

The reality is people will take out more private loans to attend these institutions.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#152

Post by watwut » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 9:10 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #137

watwut wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bouncing in and out, not bothering to finish it or prolonging it till their thirties Very rare. Mostly because school is not paying you unless your results are super great. Meaning, if you want to eat and live inside, you need money.

Not exactly true. When parents pay your rent and food and University is free some have little incentive to take it seriously.

The parents who do that till yoir 30ties who simtaneously insist on you being formally student at university are rare. Either they cut you off or are fine paying you even if you dont study.

And frankly, my impression is not that American students take school more seriously in average. They dont seem to, the paying money effect seems to be primary demanding more support and stufd from school. Not working more.

If nothing else, the college experience where massive focus is on fun, parties, extracurricular acrivities, fraternities, sorrorities, networking, fun again and sport tend to be American focus.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#153

Post by ntsplnkv2 » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 9:10 PM UTC

creato wrote: post #79

disown wrote: post #7

No, the real reason was that country wasn't producing enough jobs for the expanding labor force so we artificially created a new requirement to keep young people out of the job market for an additional 4+ years. Credentialism is a tool governments/businesses use keep control of the labor situation. The college tuition fiasco is a private/public creation. Now who wears the pants in the private/public relationship, tha…

> Credentialism is a tool governments/businesses use keep control of the labor situation. If this were the only factor, then businesses that simply stopped requiring a college degree would have a huge advantage over those that didn't. They could hire more employees, more cheaply. So why isn't that happening? There has to be more to the story than all businesses and governments colluding to require college degrees.

White collar labor simply doesn't scale like blue collar. The problems don't get easier with more people anymore. As you go up the chain quality is more important than quantity.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#154

Post by jimhefferon » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 9:10 PM UTC

bawana wrote: post #89

jimhefferon wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Colleges are now awash in money It is not possible for me to overstate how very much this is not true at the college where I work, and at all colleges with which I have a personal connection.

Of course not. They ARE AWASH in income. They just figure out how to spend it fast. Fancy buildings, fancy retirement plans, outrageous administrative salaries.... For example the Chairman of UMASS Medical Center makes 2.3 million. The CEO of Harvard makes 9.25 million. How are these jobs an order of magnitude harder than the governor of Massachusetts. (salary 150K) Or harder than the US President (salary 400K). I ca…

I cannot stop you from believing things that are false, but I can only assert that they are false.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#155

Post by ntsplnkv2 » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 9:12 PM UTC

pnw_hazor wrote: post #9

For undergrad I used Army money and was poor enough for Pell grants after that ran out. I got out with $12K in loans. Much later in law school I was shocked how my first financial aid award letter (I can't remember if it was for one semester or one year) offered $80,000 in loans even though I had an $18000 tuition grant/waiver. I met younger students who had close to $200,000 debt before starting law school. It is to…

Basic financial literacy is a major issue. Perhaps, by design.

Seeing 200,000 in debt should raise alarm bells for anyone not from wealth.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#156

Post by thatcat » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 9:13 PM UTC

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #117

sokoloff wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that if someone was housed, clothed, and fed for four years while they worked perhaps only at a summer job, that being only $29K in debt is quite a good deal. It's not just tuitions, books, and fees. You could make tuition and books free and someone still has to cover your living expenses for ~4 years of (mostly) not working at a paid job.

29k in debt is the deal - that's the average of a graduating class, so people ARE finding ways to provide for their needs and go to school and come out with 29. *Assuming these numbers are accurate - I'm not here to get into a statistical debate on the numbers. But assuming that number is accurate.

What's the variance in the set? how do you know it's not bimodal with many students having scholarships or parent paid tuition, food, and board; then other students mostly graduating with 50k plus debt?

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#157

Post by whyenot » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 9:17 PM UTC

fastaguy88 wrote: post #91

It is difficult to overstate how mistaken this article is. College has mostly gotten more expensive because state support for public universities has dramatically decreased, from over 80% in the 1970's to less than 20% now. Since the taxpayer no longer pays for public higher education, the student does. The logic of this made some sense at the time; very high tuition subsidies were a gift to the upper middle and uppe…

California's CSU system has more than half a million undergraduate students. Tuition and fees are still not much more than $8,000 a year. You can still get a very good education for not a lot of money.

Just a comparison: San Jose State University (public) and Santa Clara University (private) are less than ten miles from each other. Tuition at SJSU is $7,852 (+ fees). Tuition at SCU is $53,634. Yes, SCU has labs with all the latest equipment. A biology field class at SCU may go to Yellowstone, or Hawaii on a field trip while a similar course t SJSU would only go to the Sierras, but what you are going to learn is basically the same stuff, the level of interaction with faculty will be the same, opportunities for doing research as an undergraduate are about the same. There is no reason to spend huge sums of money to get a good education!

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#158

Post by thatcat » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 9:18 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #124

etempleton wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At many universities athletics is a major revenue driver. There is a very real financial incentive to have high performing athletic programs.

Is that true? When I researched this last time it turned out most athletic programs loose money.

It's true for football or basketball programs in the NCAA.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#159

Post by shadowgovt » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 9:19 PM UTC

fastaguy88 wrote: post #91

It is difficult to overstate how mistaken this article is. College has mostly gotten more expensive because state support for public universities has dramatically decreased, from over 80% in the 1970's to less than 20% now. Since the taxpayer no longer pays for public higher education, the student does. The logic of this made some sense at the time; very high tuition subsidies were a gift to the upper middle and uppe…

This explanation doesn't really explain why both private and public university tuitions have been rising without bound.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#160

Post by CobrastanJorji » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 9:21 PM UTC

I feel like when you make an argument about how a thing that happened on a specific date in 1993 is the dominant reason for why a value that was low in the past is now high, you are more or less obliged to include a graph of average college cost over time and include a big marker for when your proposed change occurred. Not including that graph is suspicious because if it would have helped your case, you would have included it.