Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 588 posts

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#101

Post by toast0 »

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #33
jefftk wrote: post #10

> the feds should handle student loans the same way they handle medicaid/medicare reimbursement. I'm not sure how anyone looks at our health care reimbursement system and the decides that's the approach to apply to fix anything else? Personally, I'd like to see: * Employers are allowed to test students to see what they can do, but not evaluate them based on whether they went to school or where. * Make student loan de…

But strictly speaking, employers do not look where did you go to school - they look at which school has given you a degree.

No school of good repute will give you a degree without having some attendence, so I'm not sure this is an important distinction, although certainly two years or community college can save a bunch of money in some states if the circulum is well aligned with the four year program you transfer to (or it you figure out college isn't a good fit for you). Excluding honarary degrees, which are usually given to people who don't need a degree to be hired.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#102

Post by ZainRiz »

non-entity wrote: post #90
noetic_techy wrote: post #34

"The question then becomes a matter of how we fix this without diminishing access to a college education." This is the crux of it that everyone needs to get over. Universality, High Quality, Low Cost. Pick two. By letting the government meddle you have guaranteed no one can afford college and will be long in debt to a loan they cannot discharge in bankruptcy. I'd rather have cheap college then universal access for ev…

> Or how about breaking the degree monopoly with something like equivalent certification programs and let private companies fill the gap. Similar to what Google is doing with its certificate program they are rolling out. This stuff has existed for years and there are probably thousands of "certification programs". Most of the time, they're deemed worthless.

It's worthless as a "certification program", but the actual knowledge is valuable

You need some way to get your foot in the door and prove your chops. Some bootcamps like Lambda school are doing a pretty good job about that

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#103

Post by travisporter »

robomartin wrote: post #80
noetic_techy wrote: post #34

"The question then becomes a matter of how we fix this without diminishing access to a college education." This is the crux of it that everyone needs to get over. Universality, High Quality, Low Cost. Pick two. By letting the government meddle you have guaranteed no one can afford college and will be long in debt to a loan they cannot discharge in bankruptcy. I'd rather have cheap college then universal access for ev…

Here's a potentially simple way to perhaps shave as much as 25% or more from the cost of STEM degrees in the US: Eliminate all non-STEM coursework from degree requirements. This could easily shave not only tens of thousands of dollars from a STEM degree but it would also cut it down by a year (if not more). I would also vector students who lack the proper foundation in say, language skills or the sciences, to take co…

Isn't this an associate's/technical degree? To be a successful engineer/doctor/lawyer, you need some non-STEM coursework for communication, ethics, or just to expand your view.

To last point, many state colleges in the US let you transfer credits from a community/regional college easily, so you can save ~50%

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#104

Post by pb7 »

user5994461 wrote: post #92
silvestrov wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the cost to tax payers in Europe is less than what people in USA have to pay the college. This is because my University (in Europe) had no sport facilities whatsoever , not even a soccer field. It also had no dormitories, canteens, no fancy library, sport teams etc. It did teaching + research, and nothing else.

For reference, cost in France is about 11kE per year for undergraduate and 22kE per year for master in computer science engineering. That's what it costs the university per student, not what the student pays (up to 1k a year). This doesn't cover accommodation or canteen since that's not part of the university. I don't know what's the cost in the US but I don't imagine it's orders more. The worst number I heard from c…

That's roughly how much public in-state universities cost in the United States on average[0]. Some states are significantly cheaper.

[0] https://www.valuepenguin.com/student-loans/average-cost-of-c...

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#105

Post by sokoloff »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #96
noetic_techy wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without government backed student loans for literally anyone who wants it, you suddenly dry up the money for colleges. They are forced to compete on degree cost and quality alone, and degree ROI will likely start to get factored into the price. College used to be relatively low cost long ago and easily accessible to the middle class, even lower middle class. Yes, the colleges will be hurting and screaming if they too…

There are already very affordable college options - the reason many schools charge more is because of demand and exclusivity. This is another example of sensationalism. According to an article on Forbes -> "The average student loan debt for members of the Class of 2018 is $29,200" Is that really so egregious? Isn't it more likely that semi-skilled labor jobs disappeared increasing the demand to go to college for a go…

I would say that if someone was housed, clothed, and fed for four years while they worked perhaps only at a summer job, that being only $29K in debt is quite a good deal.

It's not just tuitions, books, and fees. You could make tuition and books free and someone still has to cover your living expenses for ~4 years of (mostly) not working at a paid job.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#106

Post by SilasX »

tptacek wrote: post #87
noetic_techy wrote: post #34

"The question then becomes a matter of how we fix this without diminishing access to a college education." This is the crux of it that everyone needs to get over. Universality, High Quality, Low Cost. Pick two. By letting the government meddle you have guaranteed no one can afford college and will be long in debt to a loan they cannot discharge in bankruptcy. I'd rather have cheap college then universal access for ev…

I don't understand why there isn't simply the option of making a lot more colleges. "High Quality, Low Cost, Pick 2" isn't how most markets work.

IMHO, because what colleges are selling is effectively a positional good[1], one valued specifically for how it ranks against other similar goods. They're selling the certification that "this person is in the n% percentile of employability".

And you generally can't just make more of a positional good. That's like, "why can't Louis Vuitton ramp up production so that everyone can have a LV handbag?"

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positional_good

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#107

Post by pb7 »

btilly wrote: post #49
jefftk wrote: post #10

> the feds should handle student loans the same way they handle medicaid/medicare reimbursement. I'm not sure how anyone looks at our health care reimbursement system and the decides that's the approach to apply to fix anything else? Personally, I'd like to see: * Employers are allowed to test students to see what they can do, but not evaluate them based on whether they went to school or where. * Make student loan de…

Employers are allowed to test students to see what they can do, but not evaluate them based on whether they went to school or where. For those who are unaware, these tests are considered a violation of the Civil Rights Act because they result in hiring blacks at a much lower rate than whites. A big underlying cause of that is that schools with lots of blacks are underfunded relative to schools with lots of whites. Ma…

Most students graduate with no assets so what would stop someone from graduating and declaring bankruptcy before they begin working? Would that not reduce the ease in getting student loans since banks would be reluctant to loan to someone that doesn't have a wealthy cosigner, effectively eliminating poorer people from attending?

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#108

Post by jimhefferon »

I found https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/helland-tabarrok_why-a... enlightening. (Not an economist, just a person who wonders why college costs so much compared to cars.) I am a prof in a SLAC and I can assure you that I am not floating in money, nor is the college.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#110

Post by ericmay »

silvestrov wrote: post #57
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Universities in Europe are generally high quality and low cost. The cost is low for the student but it's pretty high for the taxpayers. Not US high but still, it's not free, there's lots of bloat in the system that thrives on volume of students not on quality so they try to push forward legislation and programs to increase the number of students, especially from abroad and build more faculties/universities with more…

No, the cost to tax payers in Europe is less than what people in USA have to pay the college. This is because my University (in Europe) had no sport facilities whatsoever , not even a soccer field. It also had no dormitories, canteens, no fancy library, sport teams etc. It did teaching + research, and nothing else.

Idk. People say this but are sports the real cost driver here? Many sports programs in the US pay for themselves and more or might be close to break even.

We also have Title IX (1) which in some cases will lead to increased costs. Not to mention we have, you guessed it, a Title IX coordinator at every university that has to comply with Title IX who probably makes $50,000 - $100,000. If you think about other programs at universities, you’ll see quite the glut of administrators.

https://www.womenssportsfoundation.org/advocacy/what-is-titl... (1)

The US education system is really just screwed up by free, guaranteed government loans. If we just made loans dischargeable then most of our issues would go away overnight. The issue you have here though is that we are concerned about access to affording college for those who have to take out loans, but this route we have just makes college increasingly unaffordable. It’s a viscous cycle. I think stopping it is the way forward.

Most likely sports are going away at US universities. Big football programs will stick around though because the make a killing and people generally love them. Men’s basketball too because it’s relatively affordable. For reference, as I’m watching Bloomberg there was a report that came out suggesting star quarterbacks at major Us football programs at the collegiate level should be compensated at around $2.4 million dollars. We won’t have a men’s rowing team, or women’s volleyball anymore though. Kind of sad since these are also used as Olympic training programs. But maybe we will change how we do things. I think the US will start losing a lot of sports talent though because the infrastructure isn’t there outside of the university system.

Post reply on HN