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Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

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Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#981
post #864

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple seems to prevent a company from having a line of text in their app that says: oh, by the way, you can purchase this texture pack or that asset on our website. I think it's the key to the problem. It seems difficult for Apple to argue that it is not anti-competitive.

They aren't a monopoly. Being a monopoly, is the first test that the courts will implement.

That depends on the definition of the market. Big Co.s under antitrust scrutiny like to present themselves as being just small parts of some huge markets, like Jeff Bezos recently saying that Amazon is actually not that big when you compare it to _all_ commerce in the US. But that doesn't make it less incredibly huge in e-commerce. Apple with iOS is in a much clearer situation though. Simply put, they have an _absolute_ monopoly on app distribution on iOS, and iOS is part of a powerful duopoly. Americans still can choose buying outside of Amazon (though maybe less conveniently), half phone-owning Americans can't choose anything else than the App Store.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#982
post #912

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bad analogy because there are many cafes and you can even buy tea in a supermarket and make it at home, whereas for apps the market is cornered. Apple regulates this market, and we have to pay them a tax.

But you can buy Fornite on the Switch, or Windows, or the Mac, or PlayStation, or Xbox.

Going to another cafe to buy your coffee doesn't include a door charge of €300 just so you can start getting your coffee there. Sure you can get it from those other devices but there's a large cost up front to switching device.

I originally started on Android and moved to iOS to check the other side. I find it annoying that I can't really use Kindle like I could before.. Or tell Siri to play something from Spotify. I'm forced to use Apple alternatives and it's the reason I'm moving back to Android when my phone dies.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#983

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately, supporting a brand as team sports is a thing like supporting a political party as team sports is. My take is the exact opposite: this episode is an opportunity to air grievances regarding each company, which by themselves have amassed a bunch of reasons for customers and end users to dislike them. There are no good guys in this story, only bad guys whose evilness outstages the other's evilness.

I agree but here is my take: These companies don't deserve this much of your attention or feelings. I have worked for Amazon and Google, and at the end of the day neither is a place with feelings. I have a lot of love for co-workers in both places and was part of some amazing products. I think I would say the same if I ever worked at Apple. For me, like in others, Apple sure brings up a lot of feelings for some reaso…

> I agree but here is my take: These companies don't deserve this much of your attention or feelings.

None of the arguments are emotional responses. All arguments are rational responses to the problems that both Apple and Epic Games creates with their modus operandi, and the comments we see about this issue boil down to people pointing out how the modus operandi of these companies again havr negative effects.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#984

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not getting the special treatment they want They are not asking for special treatment. They are asking for the courts to curtail Apple's absolute power over how applications can be installed on an operating system designed for general computing. That would be a game changer for the entire developer ecosystem. Whether that's good or bad is another debate, but the industry-shifting impact it could have is undeniable.

> on an operating system designed for general computing Apple could easily make the case that the platform was never designed for general computing. It was never an open platform, and what Epic is asking is for the government to 'compel speech' from Apple in the form of changes to their product in order to make it one.

What does this have to do with speech? And yes, the courts can compel you to do something you don't like. That's what the law is.

If you steal an candy bar, the government can "compel speech" in the form of forcing you to return the stolen property.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#985
post #869

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a company like Spotify sells subscriptions both in the app and on the web, they have to charge 43% more to the in-app purchaser to get the same revenue, even though the user gets exactly the same experience. I would call that a tax (informally; I know it strictly doesn't meet the definition) and as a customer I would like to know about it.

If a company sells coffee both in a shop and on the street it would have to charge 43% more to the in-shop purchaser to get the same revenue, even though the user gets exactly the same experience. Would you call that a tax or would you call that rent?

I don't think that works: The customer gets vastly different experiences because in a shop you're benefitting from the rented space's protection from weather, etc.

The same is true in the case of the iPhone vs. Desktop + web experience: it's different. One way that highlights the added benefit of the iOS app store is that it's safer than the open web.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#986
post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see how Epic wins this. If Stripe can claim Wells Fargo doesn't want to process porn payments, and that's legal, how can an American court rule for Epic? Epic are obviously going to lose, and lose hard, or set a precedent that's going to screw every payment provider in America and open a flood gate for fraudulent payments. You can't force someone to sell something they don't want to, especially because Apple…

The iPhone is not a store. The App Store is a store. Epic wants to be on the iPhone, but not necessarily in the App Store. Ideally, Epic wants to run its own store on the iPhone. In any case, App Store is the only store in town, where the "town" is the 1.5 billion iOS users. If there's only 1 store, with no competing stores, that's an entirely different situation legally.

I would also like to run my own store in the corner of Walmart’s buildings. Obviously I can’t force that through a lawsuit or by claiming that wallmart is abusing their monopoly on space in their buildings by only allowing their own store to operate in their buildings.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#987
post #941

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so amused that this debate is very American centered all while American physical stores can't figure out how to include taxes into displayed price. And everybody is okay with that.

Businesses are incentivized to not include taxes in the price since there's no laws against it, everyone else does it, and it lets them advertise better prices then they actually have. Personally, the practice really irks me and my small act of rebellion is that I pay in cash if tax is included in the price and by card if it's not. I wish people cared about it more but I suppose there's just more important things to…

> it lets them advertise better prices then they actually have

It’s a bit more nuanced than that. The issue is that cities will often have their own sales tax, or that states have different sales tax. This gets pretty complicated when you advertise a price near the border of a tax cliff. Well, not complicated for the customer, but for the business.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#988
post #950

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh now suddenly shills exist.

Not shills—fans. Real shilling/astroturfing is a different phenomenon. It certainly exists, but from everything I've looked at, it's orders of magnitude less common than fans making up bogus accusations about shilling.

> Not shills—fans.

> Real shilling/astroturfing is a different phenomenon. It certainly exists, but from everything I've looked at, it's orders of magnitude less common than fans making up bogus accusations about shilling.

This is interesting... how many orders of magnitude?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#989

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Businesses are incentivized to not include taxes in the price since there's no laws against it, everyone else does it, and it lets them advertise better prices then they actually have. Personally, the practice really irks me and my small act of rebellion is that I pay in cash if tax is included in the price and by card if it's not. I wish people cared about it more but I suppose there's just more important things to…

> it lets them advertise better prices then they actually have It’s a bit more nuanced than that. The issue is that cities will often have their own sales tax, or that states have different sales tax. This gets pretty complicated when you advertise a price near the border of a tax cliff. Well, not complicated for the customer, but for the business.

It is a laughable excuse. Literally every other country figured this out. It is not like borders and taxes exist only in the US.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#990
post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, if I can buy an iPhone from a store (like Target), and it contains a store… why can't I get Fortnite from the App Store then buy V-Bucks from Fortnite?

You can also before leave Target you can pickup a vbucks card that cost Epic 30% as well.

But on the iPhone, I don't buy V-bucks in the App Store, I buy it in Fortnite, and if Epic can go through the trouble of processing the payment, they deserve all the proceeds.
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