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Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

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Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#861

Post by vr46 »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #841

I don't think Epic is doing anything but trying to pocket more for themselves, yet I also think that the comments here overstate how "aware" average people are about Apple's restrictions, tax etc. I don't think most people would consider direct payment to reputable companies like Epic to be a particular security risk. I don't think most realize why they can't subscribe to Spotify from their iPhones, they think it's s…

The word "tax", when referring to Apple's fees, is a loaded and partial term. The fact that it's clear and understood and factored into the price makes it easy to complain about, but no casual customer to my knowledge has ever seriously asked what proportion of their peppermint tea and scones pays for a café's rent - overheads are overheads and margins are margins. Both companies are invoking consumers and value in their arguments and ripostes, but I only see one of them defending their customers' interests.

Many a company is upset that they have no leverage in a business deal and want to courts to hand it to them.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#862

Post by drdebug »

mattmanser wrote: post #504
_qulr wrote: post #387

My feeling is that this whole situation is mostly going as Tim Sweeney intended. He was itching for a fight, wanted to sue Apple. The harsher that Apple retaliates, the better Epic's court case. Apple is playing right into his hands. Did Sweeney anticipate Apple's threat to Unreal Engine? Maybe, maybe not. But the temporary restraining order did block that threat, at least for now. I don't think Epic ever intended to…

I can't see how Epic wins this. If Stripe can claim Wells Fargo doesn't want to process porn payments, and that's legal, how can an American court rule for Epic? Epic are obviously going to lose, and lose hard, or set a precedent that's going to screw every payment provider in America and open a flood gate for fraudulent payments. You can't force someone to sell something they don't want to, especially because Apple…

Apple seems to prevent a company from having a line of text in their app that says: oh, by the way, you can purchase this texture pack or that asset on our website. I think it's the key to the problem. It seems difficult for Apple to argue that it is not anti-competitive.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#863

Post by unishark »

adonese wrote: post #830
mattmanser wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see how Epic wins this. If Stripe can claim Wells Fargo doesn't want to process porn payments, and that's legal, how can an American court rule for Epic? Epic are obviously going to lose, and lose hard, or set a precedent that's going to screw every payment provider in America and open a flood gate for fraudulent payments. You can't force someone to sell something they don't want to, especially because Apple…

>Epic are obviously going to lose, and lose hard, or set a precedent that's going to screw every payment provider in America and open a flood gate for fraudulent payments. Users have always been (and still are) subject to all kind of fraudulent. It is about the freedom to do whatever you want with your computing device. The idea that Apple has an absolute control of what goes in into their mobile devices, and that th…

It's hard for me to feel scared about the control a company has over a product I can choose not to buy. Of course I do think you should have every right to jailbreak/root your device and vendors should have every right to cease updating or warranty repairs in return.

Personally what I find scarier is courts and other govt institution deciding what products companies are allowed to make or sell me.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#864

Post by nojito »

drdebug wrote: post #862
mattmanser wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see how Epic wins this. If Stripe can claim Wells Fargo doesn't want to process porn payments, and that's legal, how can an American court rule for Epic? Epic are obviously going to lose, and lose hard, or set a precedent that's going to screw every payment provider in America and open a flood gate for fraudulent payments. You can't force someone to sell something they don't want to, especially because Apple…

Apple seems to prevent a company from having a line of text in their app that says: oh, by the way, you can purchase this texture pack or that asset on our website. I think it's the key to the problem. It seems difficult for Apple to argue that it is not anti-competitive.

They aren't a monopoly. Being a monopoly, is the first test that the courts will implement.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#866

Post by arvinsim »

veilrap wrote: post #601
Aeolun wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

I bought a $1000 device because Apple gets to decide what can run on it. I like iOS, and I like that Apple provides a great user experience on the device. I was not in any way coerced into buying said device, and there are a plethora of other options for substitute devices had I wanted more control of what runs on the device, which I do not.

Your argument amounts to " My preference is better than yours"

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#867

Post by nobodyshere »

alpaca128 wrote: post #107
nobodyshere wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In having App Store as the only way to install common apps for their devices.

But that also applies to every single current game console and almost all other modern devices with app support, ranging from smartwatches to home automation. That doesn't seem like a monopoly to me. Apple has huge competition on the mobile market. Windows Phone 8 only had Microsoft's own app store, was that a monopoly with its <5% market share? I think not.

Yeah, but I'd imagine if someone offered you to have Steam on ps5, you'd jump in instantly. At least I would. I'd even pay more for the nice compact hardware if it is currently subsidized.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#868

Post by rrobukef »

renaudg wrote: post #858
AsyncAwait wrote: post #841

I don't think Epic is doing anything but trying to pocket more for themselves, yet I also think that the comments here overstate how "aware" average people are about Apple's restrictions, tax etc. I don't think most people would consider direct payment to reputable companies like Epic to be a particular security risk. I don't think most realize why they can't subscribe to Spotify from their iPhones, they think it's s…

"if Apple was OK with displaying a 30% Apple tax on checkout" Do you know any store that adds a line showing their margin on the customer receipt ?

A while ago, debit and visa payments often had minimal orders and additional fees.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#869

Post by paulgb »

vr46 wrote: post #861
AsyncAwait wrote: post #841

I don't think Epic is doing anything but trying to pocket more for themselves, yet I also think that the comments here overstate how "aware" average people are about Apple's restrictions, tax etc. I don't think most people would consider direct payment to reputable companies like Epic to be a particular security risk. I don't think most realize why they can't subscribe to Spotify from their iPhones, they think it's s…

The word "tax", when referring to Apple's fees, is a loaded and partial term. The fact that it's clear and understood and factored into the price makes it easy to complain about, but no casual customer to my knowledge has ever seriously asked what proportion of their peppermint tea and scones pays for a café's rent - overheads are overheads and margins are margins. Both companies are invoking consumers and value in t…

If a company like Spotify sells subscriptions both in the app and on the web, they have to charge 43% more to the in-app purchaser to get the same revenue, even though the user gets exactly the same experience.

I would call that a tax (informally; I know it strictly doesn't meet the definition) and as a customer I would like to know about it.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#870

Post by jhrmnn »

rrobukef wrote: post #868
renaudg wrote: post #858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"if Apple was OK with displaying a 30% Apple tax on checkout" Do you know any store that adds a line showing their margin on the customer receipt ?

A while ago, debit and visa payments often had minimal orders and additional fees.

But Apple is more than a payment processor here, they are closer to a regular online store in this regard
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