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Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

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Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#631

Post by stale2002 »

Humdeee wrote: post #601
stale2002 wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't care about choice of App Stores and I prefer the consistency of a single, consistent, secure source of Apps. And you can have that. By not installing other app stores. > reduces fragmentation You don't have to fragment anything. Just only use the Apple App store. > If I wanted choice in App Stores You are not forced into choosing anything. All you have to do is not install other app stores, and you don't ha…

All these points are moot as the main Appstore would be made much less valuable because it is assumed many major app players would diverge away. Even quoting the line, it was still largely glossed over: > ...prefer the consistency of a single, consistent, secure source of Apps. What is consistent when every app player is part of a different app store? Suddenly Microsoft has their own, Google has their own, Epic Games…

> What is consistent

What is consistent would be your experience if you choose to only use the Apple App store. That experience would remain consistent.

> No thank you.

Then don't use those app stores?

If the conversation is about your rights, as an Apple user, then other people doing what they want with their own phones does not matter.

Someone can, right now, remove their app from the Apple app store, and nobody would claim that if they did they, then they are infringing on your rights as a user. So I am not sure why you would bring that up.

Nobody would claim that you are forced to do anything, if an app just removed themselves completely from an app store, so that is not relevant.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#632

Post by mekster »

spott wrote: post #500
shados wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Court doubts that an expert would suggest a zero percent alternative It's unfortunate that the percentage cut ends up overshadowing the real antitrust issue, which is that Apple (and Google) essentially has the power to make or break any arbitrary business that relies on their platform. They base it on vague and loosely enforced rules, which means companies never know if tomorrow is the end. Having a locked pla…

I mean the Microsoft Store charges 30% for games, Google play is 30%, Steam is 30%, I'm sure there are app stores I'm not thinking of that charge 30%. It seems to be the industry standard App Store cut.

Maybe you just play some games and never were a developer but 30% sounds like a huge fee when you literally have no other way to sell than to use dominating platforms of iOS, Android and Steam.

It was only natural that some successful company would start the fight on behalf of everyone else thinking the cut is too high.

For users, it could mean the reduction of price but users are just too satisfied, they don't care what the developers think but be pets on the platforms.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#633

Post by mekster »

nodamage wrote: post #540
bnj wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like it hints at — is price fixing the right form of anti-competitive behavior when players mutually agree not to compete?

Companies are free to set their own prices. Setting a price that matches your competitor's price is a standard business practice and is not considered price fixing as long as there was no coordination with the competitor. In other words: 1. If Apple went and talked to Google and Microsoft and they all agreed to set the price to 30%, that would be price fixing. 2. If Apple looked at Microsoft and saw that they had set…

Why would those 3 platforms consider lowering their fee if that isn't going to really increase their market share?

It's simply a monopoly situation that competition isn't even required to sustain their positions.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#634

Post by colejohnson66 »

efreak wrote: post #449
henryfjordan wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why not? Easy: a link off their site doesn't earn them any money. They want to you stay on their domain.

But a link to a pdf (which they can just as easily host themselves) that doesn't link elsewhere isn't going to take you to other websites.

Why not embed a PDF viewer into the webpage? I’ve seen some sites do that.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#635

Post by hundchenkatze »

saagarjha wrote: post #507
hundchenkatze wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do, but if I built a game using Unreal Engine then I'd be using my developer account to sign my game.

Yeah, but as a developer of Unreal Engine itself I'd like to be able to test it on iPhone…

Then create a free developer account. You only need to pay if you need to sign for distribution.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#636

Post by ksk »

scarface74 wrote: post #620
ksk wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What does this have to do with PCs? Your question was about PCs Your answer wasn't about PCs, it was about flaws in other products/services. >So which search engine do you suggest? What if there were a secondary App Store on phones? Selling a “free” version of some popular app? I would suggest them to not install apps unless it was recommended by someone they trust and they were confident that it wasn't junk. This w…

I would suggest them to not install apps unless it was recommended by someone they trust and they were confident that it wasn't junk. You mean like friends recommending Firefox and someone naturally going to Google to search for “Firefox” and the top link being malware? If someone recommended an app and they found a fake version on the third party App Store how would they know the difference? How has that worked out…

>You mean like friends recommending Firefox and someone naturally going to Google to search for “Firefox” and the top link being malware? If someone recommended an app and they found a fake version on the third party App Store how would they know the difference?

Again, if they are not sure how to discern the difference because of flaws in Google, they should not be using Google. Their friend or maybe a curation website or whatever should give them a direct link. Why are you assuming that this is not possible? People share direct links to websites and videos and other things all the time.

>You mean like “freedom” to choose an Android over an iPhone?

No, that is not freedom. When every company is in on the scam, you need government intervention. When all companies are abusing your privacy, you need new laws. The existing laws were made for non-digital marketplaces. You can setup a lemonade stand without Apple robbing 30% of your sales, but if you try to make an app you first need to beg apple for permission to write software, then apple will rob you of 30% of your sales. Sorry, that is not morally acceptable to me, and I don't even work in the software industry anymore. I work in vaccines. We need new laws as goods and services transition over to digital-markets. Modern problems need modern solutions.

>Is this the government you want to give more power too?

By setting the rules of the economy as such, the government already gave too much power to corporations. Its time to change the balance of power to what we think is morally acceptable. I'm not even saying everything has always sucked. Maybe the existing laws did work fairly well for a while, but I don't believe they have any magical power that we can't amend them as we see fit.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#637

Post by deaddodo »

vaxman wrote: post #626
deaddodo wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it didn't. Verizon is modern Bell Atlantic and also went about buying up RBOCs. Your point is valid, they did just remonopolize, but it's not like AT&T is just AT&T again.

GTE was not an RBOC. Verizon is GTE+BellAtlantic+Vodafone-Vodafone.

And various smaller RBOCs.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#638

Post by vaxman »

deaddodo wrote: post #637
vaxman wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GTE was not an RBOC. Verizon is GTE+BellAtlantic+Vodafone-Vodafone.

And various smaller RBOCs.

PacBell/Tel had two competitors for the seven dwarfs (RBOCs) that Judge Green created from MaBell, those competitors were GTE and Quest. GTE did pick up Bell Atlantic (and NYNEX) while Quest picked up US West. GTE then merged with Vodafone to become Verizon (and recently bought out Vodafone). Quest became CenturyLink. PacBell simply licensed the retail rights to the original AT&T name.

When the federal government breaks AppStore off of Apple and forces it to compete with qualified independent app stores, they will have learned from that fiasco and probably have language in the settlement (consent decree) that does not allow it to go around buying up the other app stores and eventually change its name back to Apple. Apple without AppStore will be a media company, since hardware sales aren't/can't be enough to sustain growth (unless we find a planet of aliens), especially if we are losing the Chinese market to another cold war.

Incidentally, there is another case precedent: Disney. There is a reason Disney no longer owns Grauman's/Mann's Chinese Theater in Hollywood, its favorite venue --Disney/Paramount lost an antitrust case that prohibited them from owning both the means of production and the manner of distribution (sound familiar?); however, President Trump has recently terminated those 77 year old consent decrees meaning Disney can do what it wants now. Ironically, Disney might become a suitor for Apple's media business if it doesn't workout. For example, NASA and its contractors buy thousands of Macs from Apple but some phat idiot (won't name names) thinks it's a good idea to have an AppleTV+ series about "what if NASA didn't win the space race" wtaf?!

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#639

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

jackvalentine wrote: post #627
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You failed to understand that there are no options for iPhone apps market, and users are open to all kinds of abuse: by Apple themselves and by authoritarian governments like in China or Russia. Now, I happen to live in an authoritarian country and I'm kinda more inclined to be not ok with the company that removes access to apps that fail to give up user data to government crooks. You claim that users 'agree' to this…

Apple doesn't need me to carry water for them, but you're actually damaging the case for open hardware and software by carrying on like a porkchop because closed hardware and software is also available. > You claim that users 'agree' to this when they buy Apple devices. I claimed no such thing. Read my words directly and please don't put your own spin on them. In a market where both options exist why should one chang…

Yeah. Just read this fresh news: "Google is apparently taking down all/most fediverse apps from the Play Store" [1]. To quote source:

"Google is apparently taking down all/most fediverse apps from google play on the grounds that that some servers in the fediverse engage in hate speech"

THIS is what you are so tirelessly advocating for

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24304275

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