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Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

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Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#121

Post by cltby »

vore wrote: post #94
cltby wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people like you create social safety nets like unemployment without ever paying into the system, "what's appending" is that Uber and Lyft are paying for your moral grandstanding. People shifting the costs of their moral choices to strangers should feel bad about themselves.

How are we not paying into the social safety net? That's literally what we as individuals pay for with taxes.

My comment was a (lame) play on the inane parent.

Maybe you're paying, and maybe you're not. But if you are, you're doing so grudgingly. "I wouldn't have to pay taxes to support this gigantic welfare state I've repeatedly voted for if only greedy Uber and Lyft would pay for my moral principles!"

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#122

Post by jayd16 »

yibg wrote: post #76
itslennysfault wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not let the market decide? Because we're not monsters.

What does that even mean? We're monsters for giving people choice?

The market has previously decided unsafe factories and child labor is ideal. Often market forces are great but empirically they do not solve every case and as a society we must evaluate each case accordingly.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#123

Post by lovecg »

serjester wrote: post #99

Completely anecdotal but I bring this question up every time I drive in an Uber and overwhelmingly the drivers tell me they want to stay independent. No one is forcing drivers into their jobs. I really struggle to understand why we need bureaucrats imposing their idea of what a market should look like on an fairly efficient market. From my experience the drivers are perfectly aware of the costs that go into driving s…

The talking points I heard was that this was done because of

1) Payroll tax revenue 2) Unions feeling threatened

The implication is in either case it’s an explicitly hostile action by the government in favor of special interests, and the majority of drivers did not want this.

Can anyone more knowledgeable on the topic pitch in — is there any truth to these arguments?

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#125

Post by sneak »

erichocean wrote: post #79
throwawaygh wrote: post #72

When companies like Uber/Lyft depend on safety nets like unemployment without ever paying into the system, what’s happening is that our children are paying for returns on VC capital. People profiting from these types of companies should feel bad about themselves.

Now do Amazon.

Amazon pays more in payroll taxes, SUI, and Social Security alone than the entire revenue of the vast majority of any company you could select in the world.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#126

Post by chrischattin »

jon-wood wrote: post #87
hammock wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who says driving for Uber/Lyft should be a full-time job, or statutorily viable as a full-time job? If you consider it only as a second or third job, then it makes a lot more sense that your second or third job is not going to pay as well or have the same benefits as your first job. Those aspects would be expected and reasonable. The low-risk, high-reward jobs fill your primary job slot, then you seek other options a…

That you don’t bat an eyelid at people needing a second or third job to make ends meet is in itself an indictment of the general state of the US.

Who said they needed the extra gig to make ends meet? Some people might just enjoy it, or want to earn a little extra during their free time, or have a seat open on their commute.

To view temp/gig work with a full-time lens is disingenuous, imo.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#127

Post by throwawaygh »

marcinzm wrote: post #108
throwawaygh wrote: post #72

When companies like Uber/Lyft depend on safety nets like unemployment without ever paying into the system, what’s happening is that our children are paying for returns on VC capital. People profiting from these types of companies should feel bad about themselves.

Huh? As I understand it Uber/Lyft drivers are not eligible for unemployment benefits (recent laws/court rulings aside). So they don't depend on the safety nets in any way. edit: Unemployment insurance is paid by companies for their workers who may use it in the future. It's not a shared social obligation from taxes. Nor is everyone eligible to use it merely by existing.

From Lyft itself: https://www.lyft.com/hub/posts/how-the-cares-act-can-help-dr...

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#128

Post by rrose »

Aarostotle wrote: post #73
asdasfasdfasdf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The employer has dramatically more power in the free market. Especially when backed by endless piles of VC money. Remember that the free market didn't end child labor, create weekends, or the minimum wage.

It only enabled the technological foundations to do all of the above.

none of those things required technology. pre-industrial society would not have collapsed if laborers had weekends and a minimum wage

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#129

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

serjester wrote: post #99

Completely anecdotal but I bring this question up every time I drive in an Uber and overwhelmingly the drivers tell me they want to stay independent. No one is forcing drivers into their jobs. I really struggle to understand why we need bureaucrats imposing their idea of what a market should look like on an fairly efficient market. From my experience the drivers are perfectly aware of the costs that go into driving s…

They want to stay independent, fine. Then actually treat them like independent contractors. Let them set rates. Let them decline rides without facing penalties by the platform. Make the changes necessary to fit the independent contractor model. And not just the rideshare company, but the state too: these workers need unemployment insurance, as Covid has shown, and somebody needs to pay for it: be it the workers or the ridesharing businesses.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#130

Post by ksdale »

ram_rar wrote: post #80
ccktlmazeltov wrote: post #71

This is all a shit show because the infrastructures in place are currently doomed for the market to succeed: - no healthcare means you're a slave of whatever you can find, - tipping culture means your employer can pay you shit

+1 for tipping culture. I just dont get it, why can employers pay their fair share, instead of expecting customers to foot the bill.

I wouldn't mind at all if tipping culture disappeared, but I think it's naive to think that costs wouldn't go up dramatically for customers. Customers are footing the bill one way or another, it's just a matter of whether we're willing to pay enough to ensure everyone gets a livable wage.
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