Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall • Hacker News Board

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#991

Post by andromeduck » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 7:10 AM UTC

QuixoticQuibit wrote: post #124

andromeduck wrote: post #12

Having moved back to Vancouver for a few weeks it's honestly so refreshing to, be back. Living in SF for a few years kind of makes you forget what being in a half functioning city is like. It's safer, it's cleaner, the people friendlier, the discourse less polarized/toxic, and the public transit isn't garbage.

Yes, I already feel this despite not having moved out of the SFBA yet. I miss more dense cities with functional transit systems and fewer on-the-street issues. Still planning to stay here long term to save extra money. But as soon as I hit my number, I’m moving out of this disaster in urban planning; there’s just no future here.

Yeah. Turns out people don't just pack up their lives and leave without reason. ️

Transit/zoning/policing is only half the story though IMO. The other half is just how toxic a lot of the discourse here is. There seems to be an especially strong preference here for private reason over public reason that I think underpins much of the social issues here between rose tinted nostalgia for bygone area, strong nativism and exclusionary localism that IMO is quite MAGA-esque.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#992

Post by JMTQp8lwXL » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 11:03 PM UTC

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #819

nostromo wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is all just a temporary thing, even if this pandemic meanders on for another 3-5 years. The last American urban exodus started in the 1950s and wasn't fully reversed until the early 2000s. Many cities never recovered in the Mid-Atlantic and Midwest. Even the most expensive cities, like San Francisco, LA, and New York, had neighborhoods that were run down and dilapidated, ignored for decades, until very recentl…

You’ve got it backwards. It’s the suburbs that are expensive. Think about it: one mile of sewer, one mile of street, supports X people in a suburb, or 50X people in a dense city. Even if the wear costs in the city are double or even four times that, the city comes out way ahead. https://mikethemadbiologist.com/2016/11/10/meanwhile-u-s-sub...

If at scale, everything is cheaper in cities, why is it local taxes are generally higher within them?

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#993

Post by danbolt » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 11:50 PM UTC

dongvsascript wrote: post #723

danbolt wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bars -there are very few attractive girls at bars, or at offices, or even on the street, compared to just about anywhere in the world. and if that's not why you go to bars, i have to ask -you'd enjoy going to bars with mostly men? because that's cool too -once in a rare while. I don't think everyone goes to pubs or bars for the same reasons as you might.

the reason they go is to socialize. both men and women prefer to socialize in an environment that's not mostly men. bars were listed as a reason people live in sf. i say it's not, because a sausage fest that closes at 1am is not something people find as a reason to live in a city. the people who do are the people who sit at their weird guy-table in a normal bar full of girls, afraid to walk up and say hello.

> the people who do are the people who sit at their weird guy-table in a normal bar full of girls, afraid to walk up and say hello

If a guy's out having a nice time with his boyfriends, there's no reason to belittle him for that. ;)

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#994

Post by Eric_WVGG » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:18 AM UTC

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #992

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve got it backwards. It’s the suburbs that are expensive. Think about it: one mile of sewer, one mile of street, supports X people in a suburb, or 50X people in a dense city. Even if the wear costs in the city are double or even four times that, the city comes out way ahead. https://mikethemadbiologist.com/2016/11/10/meanwhile-u-s-sub...

If at scale, everything is cheaper in cities, why is it local taxes are generally higher within them?

Because we are on the hook for the parasites in the suburbs.

It’s exactly like the paradigm between coastal states and welfare states.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#995

Post by brachika » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 9:42 PM UTC

I'm not even living in SF, but I can understand the reasons, and they are - who would guessed it, mostly money related.

The last couple of months during the quarantine I saved more as double than I did in the two years before that.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#996

Post by kgin » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 3:36 PM UTC

presentation wrote: post #985

kgin wrote: post #964

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tokyo absolutely took advantage of that clean slate, but San Francisco's issues don't seem to be related to physical infrastructure.

You kidding me? Physical infrastructure is absolutely central to the issue. Demand to live in SF skyrocketed but the city responded by resisting any expansion of its housing stock. To claim that doesn’t have an impact on the affordability in the city, which in turn affects whether or not people can afford to live in a home there, is madness.

https://medium.com/land-buildings-identity-and-values/what-i...

> Tokyo could be the rare example of a once expensive city that successfully managed the difficult political process of removing planning restrictions in order to achieve affordable housing.

They didn't achieve affordable housing as a result of a clean slate. In fact housing in Tokyo was insanely expensive during the 80s. It wasn't until zoning restrictions were changed in the 90s that prices came back down. It's about the laws, not about having to contend with old buildings.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#997

Post by AIX2ESXI » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 6:53 AM UTC

morceauxdebois wrote: post #785

AIX2ESXI wrote: post #326

Been a professional IT worker since 1999. Most of my sysadmin roles have always been on site with occasional remote work. Over the years, I've been able to swing working for a few weeks at a time while traveling abroad. Currently based in Los Angeles and my organization is allowing us to work remote. Looking to just move abroad to Ukraine and lower my costs of living while immersing myself into a new culture and esca…

You don't think you'll find discord in Ukraine, the country in a cold civil war?

For sure, but the language barrier and not being on the border will provide some dissonance. It's more a cultural thing for me at this point. Don't feel connected to America after falling in love with international life. Also want to escape the election cycle and local politics that everyone seems to obsess about.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#998

Post by AIX2ESXI » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 6:57 AM UTC

vmception wrote: post #762

AIX2ESXI wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much appreciated. Looking into now. Need to use my Chase Sapphire rewards more or get an Amex travel card. Only Ukraine is open right now. Thinking about Odessa so that I can study the classical arts in between Sysadmin duties and life.

Croatia is open right now to Americans, which is decent and beautiful. And from there you can get into Schengen if you aspire for that. Its not an Schengen wide policy so I wont say more. There are a lot of relationships in Europe. Ukraine is probably cheaper but its up to you.

Thanks for the advice. Will look into Schengen visa. What are the best portals for finding work? I'll be remote until end of year with my current gig. But the 10 hour timezone difference will catch up to me.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#999

Post by virginieAFP » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

Hello, I'm a correspondent in the bay area for AFP which is a global news agency(https://www.afp.com/en/news-hub) and I'm looking for to talk with people who are moving out from San Francisco because of the pandemic/remote work now accessible. Please, let me know if you are interested or know someone who may be. Thanks, Virginie Goubier

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#1000

Post by virginieAFP » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 6:52 PM UTC

captaincole wrote: post #102

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

HI! I'm the correspondent for AFP a global news agency, and I'm looking for to speak with people leaving San Francisco because of pandemic/remote work. Can i talk to you?