Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall • Hacker News Board

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#591

Post by fortran77 » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:45 AM UTC

dmode wrote: post #484

fortran77 wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what does SF have for people who don't care about the "bars and culture?" Not much. I spend a half the year in my Sunnyvale, CA home. I never go to SF to see shows, concerts, etc. Several times a year, when I'm in the U.S., I'll put together a trip to NY, LA, etc, to see several events over a long weekend. And/or go to Tanglewood, Monterey Jazz, Cabrillo music festivals. People who visit me are shocked to learn t…

There is no way SF had 2.5x violent crime. SF is exceptionally safe when it comes to violent crime, with only ~40 homicides last year

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=crime+rate+San+Francis...

The sources of the data is the FBI "UCR" rates. Why do you believe the FBI is not accurate? That's an odd claim.

https://crime-data-explorer.fr.cloud.gov/

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#592

Post by SteveMorin » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:46 AM UTC

x87678r wrote: post #416

josephg wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because of how insane housing in SF is. For comparison I own a 2br apartment in Melbourne, Australia. It takes about 15 minutes to walk from here to the heart of the city. My mortgage repayments (including interest) are about $700usd/month.

> My mortgage repayments (including interest) are about $700usd/month. Melbourne is not cheap, there must be more to this story. The average house price in Melbourne is $855,428. A $600k unit, 20% deposit, 25y mortgage, cheap 2% rate is $1.4k or USD 1k. + strata fees

30 Yr Mortgage would be 2.75%-3.1% with very good credit right now

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#593

Post by opportune » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:48 AM UTC

myrandomcomment wrote: post #547

It is not just SF, but the whole Bay Area. My power is out now for the 2nd time in 3 days. The first 2pm Friday until 3am Saturday and now since around 3am Sunday until ... well it’s 6pm and no end in sight. The infrastructure is crap here. I was on the edge before, but I am over now. 2 more years so the kid can finish school and we are leaving. While it has been hard managing a team without the ability to have a whi…

Yeah the incoming smoke and rolling blackouts are just nails in the coffin confirming I'm making the right decision to move out. The whole bay area became so complacent riding the coattails of the technology industry, now there's a bit of a reckoning

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#594

Post by electriclove » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:49 AM UTC

presentation wrote: post #486

reaperducer wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are these quality of life issues, and how have other cities avoided them? They haven't. But other cities have handled some quality of life issues differently, or better, or in some cases worse. It's all cyclical. New York was a great place to be in the 60's, largely due to quality of life. New York in the 70's was a hellhole, largely due to quality of life. These things ebb and flow in every city. It's just SFO'…

Uhh, maybe US cities haven’t, but here in Tokyo I never smell feces, step on needles, nor are there hordes of homeless people in every major part of the neighborhood, in a city that has affordable housing, a truly phenomenal public transit network, streets that pretty much never have potholes, and endless cultural and culinary amenities, in a place with GDP per capita far lower than SF. And it similarly was the case…

How did you make the move? Are you Japanese or Asian? I would love to move to Tokyo or similar but feel I would be discriminated against for being a dark skinned Indian male.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#595

Post by justchilly » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:51 AM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #434

justchilly wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the same. The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore. Almost everybody I know that moved out had no problem affording housing (high earners / home owners / rent controlled). People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. About half of the tech people I know have…

The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore... People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically Aren't these two sides of the same coin? Very few people base their housing choices on cost alone. Other livability factors play a huge role. That's why real estate developers put amenities in their apartment buildings, and fight over loca…

I think you're right and we may be saying the same thing. Certainly most people consider cost vs quality of life. In SF this is particularly true for the younger people that are leaving. They just move back in with their parents, stop paying rent, and maybe will come back if/when things reopen.

My point was about the other group that is leaving: more established professionals / homeowners / parents. For that group, saving on housing in the short terms isn't actually a major factor. Many are likely moving to other expensive places. The main thing keeping them in SF was their offices, professional network, or their children. In other words they were in SF despite the declining quality of life. With those constraints gone, they are leavings en mass as well.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#596

Post by almost_usual » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:51 AM UTC

koolba wrote: post #430

justchilly wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the same. The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore. Almost everybody I know that moved out had no problem affording housing (high earners / home owners / rent controlled). People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. About half of the tech people I know have…

> The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore. Almost everybody I know that moved out had no problem affording housing (high earners / home owners / rent controlled). People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. Whether something is too expensive is not just a function of…

Probably a good time to buy in 6-8 months

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#597

Post by rebelos » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:52 AM UTC

jonahbenton wrote: post #352

luma wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long does the “high paying” part stay true when companies who need technical talent can now pull candidates from the entire world? I wonder if the move towards remote work might wind up pushing down IT wages across the board. edit: instead of downvoting, maybe help me understand why I might be looking at this wrong?

Not wrong, but only half right. A very significant element of comp is about relationships, not skills or productivity or labor markets or other fictions people believe. In-person relationships are infinitely stronger, on balance, than remote. Remote talent will be cheaper than in-person talent, on balance, AND, in-person talent will always be comped better than remote. The way work is structured as tech continues to…

This alludes to an important hidden economic downside of being remote: it's tantamount to stalling career progression in the long run.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#598

Post by almost_usual » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:52 AM UTC

ssalazar wrote: post #555

radicaldreamer wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only in the short to medium term... the characteristics which make SF an attractive place to live (just like NYC) are resilient and sticky. If you consider a post-covid world 5 years from now, do you think that SF with it's museums, bars, restaurants, and proximity to nature will be an unattractive place to live? Do you think that remote-first/remote-only companies where the majority of employees are outside of the b…

Many of the bars, restaurants, and smaller cultural institutions will be gone. The larger, well-funded museums and nature will stay of course. But much of what is interesting about a city comes from the people who live there and shape its culture. The San Francisco of today is very different from 10 or 20 years ago, and will be very different 10 years from now. This is recoverable, sure, but its not guaranteed, and i…

Small blips compared to SFs greater history.

A 8.5+ earthquake would be a city changing event. Entire neighborhoods with URMs would probably no longer exist afterwards (Chinatown, Tenderloin, Soma, etc).

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#599

Post by mathattack » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:52 AM UTC

captaincole wrote: post #102

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

Once upon a time SF was expensive, but affordable enough for a bunch of non-tech folks right out of college to room together. Most of tech was down South so you had to want to be in the city. If the city reverts to a quirky countercultural moderately overpriced spot, minus some of the tech workers, it’s not the end of the world. And the rest of the US will benefit from more dispersed tech brainpower.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#600

Post by dongvsascript » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:53 AM UTC

stbtrax wrote: post #571

annexrichmond wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as someone who's lived in SF for years this is all very true. Food is expensive and a lot of it's designed to be instagrammed. There are definitely some great spots but not that many and really not that diverse (lacks middle eastern, greek, british, American bbq, spanish) Nightlife is horrible, bars pretty much close at 1am, hardly any live music, gender imbalance, and not much density so it often just feels "dead" i…

I'm not sure what you're comparing it to, SF is known to have a world-class food scene. There are multiple examples all of the things you listed(except maybe british but who wants that?), as well as things that you don't find in may other cities: burmese, cambodian, laotian, peruvian.

heh. food scene. i don't want a 'food scene.' i just want good food. i don't care if it's on 3 plates with sauce designs, i don't care if it looks like a beef-flower, or if it photographs well for my 'stream.'

btw the british school of cuisine is one of the most famous in the world. not scene-wise though, but good food is for eating, not instagram.

sf is definitely not known for tasty food. it's known for showing off food. good for bored tourists. not good to live there. and no, sf doesn't habe good greek food or middle-eastern food. i've been to greece and the middle east quite a bit, and they have better food at has stations.

sf is all show and hype. that's not what locals want.