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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

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Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#291

Post by justchilly »

sftoss31337 wrote: post #207
justchilly wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those Felicias are the majority of the tax base, and fund all of the initiatives that rebuild communities. Falling housing prices -> falling property taxes -> less funding for schools. Even the new revenue tax passed last year to fund homeless programs is based employees being in SF, when they leave, no more funding. Not to mention all the money the Felicias pump into the local economy by ubering to brunch to buy the…

Shrug. Rationalize their existance all you want, but we will get by just fine. Do you know why San Francisco has always been expensive? Because it’s so worth it. We will do just fine without the parasitic green-eyed monsters who have invaded our homes since Web 2.0.

I think your anger is misguided. Those web 2.0 arent happy about the exorbitant rent either, nor are they the primary beneficiaries. That would be the native SF'ers/homeowners that were here before the boom (and who are still paying $25 a month in property taxes while collecting $5k in rent due to Prop 13).

SF's budget has more than doubled in the past 10 years. For example, the city budget increased >$400mm from just higher property taxes in 2019 alone. https://sfassessor.org/news/strength-property-tax-helps-sf-r...

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#292

Post by dragonwriter »

natechols wrote: post #234
crooked-v wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One bit of broader context to keep in mind is that "extreme" left-wingers in the US are merely 'the left' by, say, European standards, where the US as a whole is seen as a right-leaning country.

We have actual Maoists in the bay area - they're a tiny faction and utterly irrelevant, but they're very good at getting attention and they like to poison the atmosphere for everyone. There are no Maoist governing parties in Europe that I'm aware of, and hardly any Marxists either.

> There are no Maoist governing parties in Europe that I'm aware of

There aren't any Maoist (or any of the other descendants of Leninism) governing parties in the Bay Area, either.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#293

Post by dx87 »

amw-zero wrote: post #4
aminozuur wrote: post #2

I applaud this trend. I am in the 60% of people[1] who prefer to work from home, and spend more time with loved ones and less time rushing to get to the office. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/business/pandemic-work-fr...

I’m very skeptical that 60% of all people prefer to work from home. In my experience, it’s a small but vocal minority who don’t value the social component of an office. I think work from home should totally be optional, but why do work-from-homers assume that everyone else likes to work that way? I do not.

It might be something to do with the age of employees. I work at a company where the average age is probably early 30s, and maybe a handful of people would come into the office back when it was still optional, everyone else wanted to stay home to spend time with their families. For me at least, the only people I've talked to that prefer working from the office are young people who live alone and depend on work for socialization, and parents who use the office as a way to get a break from their young children for a few hours.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#294

Post by tlb »

zepto wrote: post #242
adjkant wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's going to be a wash, or prices wouldn't fall. You're right that this will decrease tax bases, so I guess the real question is "by how much?". Only time will tell what that looks like, but I think that will lead more to rebudgeting/allocating than just objective negative losses. Your specific examples are interesting though, as NYC's population explicitly rejected Amazon's HQ2 with public backlash. N…

It’s also worth noting that this has happened before in SF multiple times, to varying degrees, and the result has generally been an invigoration of culture in one way or another.

I was in the Bay Area for the 2001 and 2008 tech crashes. Cheap space made all kinds of things possible: performances, art projects, experimental living arrangements, bootstrapped startups, maker spaces, high-concept restaurants, ...

When people can start things without institutional funding, they can build interesting, speculative things. Some of those speculative things end up making lots of money, while most go bust, but either way it's an interesting environment to be part of.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#295

Post by xivzgrev »

rcpt wrote: post #274
adjkant wrote: post #192

These HN comments don't seem to grasp that there are two distinct groups of people here, and these trends can/will counteract eachother: the ones that are in the city for work, and the ones that are in the city because they love cities. COVID creates an exodus of one, but people in the latter category are also moving into cities as well as prices drop and they are no longer priced out. HN folks love to complain about…

> as someone in NYC NYC is a legit megacity - New York has been described as the cultural, financial, and media capital of the world. SF is small by comparison. Only a small portion of SF is walkable and even then the blocks are long. Transit is sparse and dirty and most people end up owning cars. Despite this housing is more expensive than NYC. Unless you think it's reasonable to pay $4k a month for a one bedroom in…

Bro have you ever visited indianapolis? Yes the two cities are about the same size population but that’s about the only similarity. SF has a different climate, geography, cities, people, food, politics, etc.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#296

Post by shajznnckfke »

baddox wrote: post #258
shortandsweet wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take your fake wall. I have the sierras at my back door.

I love the Sierras and have spent a lot of nights in the backcountry, but good luck getting any permits now. Pre-pandemic it was already extremely difficult. Now you need to get up at 7am and grab a day use ticket to even enter Yosemite (or even drive through!).

Most of the Sierras don’t require any type of permit or ticket to access. I’ve noticed among techie friends with a new desire to go outdoors a belief that they need to make an appointment to enjoy nature, and since all the appointments are taken online, there is no nature to enjoy. Or to google for “best hike San Francisco”, go there, and find that the parking is full.

In fact the nature is much larger than the city, and it’s most entirely empty if you aren’t intentionally visiting the most popular spots.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#297

Post by deepakhj »

baddox wrote: post #258
shortandsweet wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take your fake wall. I have the sierras at my back door.

I love the Sierras and have spent a lot of nights in the backcountry, but good luck getting any permits now. Pre-pandemic it was already extremely difficult. Now you need to get up at 7am and grab a day use ticket to even enter Yosemite (or even drive through!).

We got permits for desolation wilderness fairly easily in June.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#298

Post by dustingetz »

rcpt wrote: post #274
adjkant wrote: post #192

These HN comments don't seem to grasp that there are two distinct groups of people here, and these trends can/will counteract eachother: the ones that are in the city for work, and the ones that are in the city because they love cities. COVID creates an exodus of one, but people in the latter category are also moving into cities as well as prices drop and they are no longer priced out. HN folks love to complain about…

> as someone in NYC NYC is a legit megacity - New York has been described as the cultural, financial, and media capital of the world. SF is small by comparison. Only a small portion of SF is walkable and even then the blocks are long. Transit is sparse and dirty and most people end up owning cars. Despite this housing is more expensive than NYC. Unless you think it's reasonable to pay $4k a month for a one bedroom in…

Zillow link for Indianapolis, it is not exactly a rich city. https://www.zillow.com/indianapolis-in/?searchQueryState=%7B... You can get a fine house for $100k but it is not the life coastal city folks are accustomed to.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#299

Post by john_moscow »

kirse wrote: post #143
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, giving the homeless homes doesn't work. For the economically disadvantaged, of course providing free or low cost housing is helpful and welcome. But for the majority, who have mental illness and/or substance abuse issues, a shelter or home often makes little difference. Witness for example the experiment in Manhattan to provide some homeless men with hotel rooms. They literally go downstairs to poop in…

Unfortunately, giving the homeless homes doesn't work. It does though. Cities like Philadelphia and states like Utah solve it this way and both the homeless per capita + the return-to-homeless rate are nationally very low: Together with our many nonprofit partners, the City provides 11,503 emergency, temporary and permanent “beds.” Last year we helped 970 families and individuals from-homeless-to-housed. Our permanen…

From my experience in Europe, providing housing only works together with very low tolerance to substance abuse and disorderly behavior. I can image conservative Utah having very similar attitude.

IMO, the SF public sees the right to disturb others as an extension of personal liberties, and hence this solution won't work very well.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#300

Post by watwut »

andreilys wrote: post #268
adjkant wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See this thread + some other replies, but it seems I'm far from alone on this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24180321

So delivery food and an outdoor rock climbing gym. None of these are exclusive to living in NYC/SF. You can learn to cook (or hell even hire your own private chef with the money you save) while living near an actual mountain with much better rock climbing capabilities and ample access to rock climbing coaches.

Climbing actual mountains typically takes hours to just get there even if yoi are on them.

It is also different more dangerous sport then wall climbing (which is pretty safe).

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