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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

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Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#191

Post by jeffdn »

DanBC wrote: post #147
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, giving the homeless homes doesn't work. For the economically disadvantaged, of course providing free or low cost housing is helpful and welcome. But for the majority, who have mental illness and/or substance abuse issues, a shelter or home often makes little difference. Witness for example the experiment in Manhattan to provide some homeless men with hotel rooms. They literally go downstairs to poop in…

> Unfortunately, giving the homeless homes doesn't work. For the economically disadvantaged, of course providing free or low cost housing is helpful and welcome. > But for the majority, who have mental illness and/or substance abuse issues, a shelter or home often makes little difference. I'd question your stats about mental illness and substance misuse disorder, but even if we accept that most homeless people are ei…

We don't want to go back to that, but the replacement of that system with a choice between homelessness or incarceration hasn't exactly been a success. There has to be a better way.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#192

Post by adjkant »

These HN comments don't seem to grasp that there are two distinct groups of people here, and these trends can/will counteract eachother: the ones that are in the city for work, and the ones that are in the city because they love cities. COVID creates an exodus of one, but people in the latter category are also moving into cities as well as prices drop and they are no longer priced out.

HN folks love to complain about the lack of value of cities (SF in particular), but as someone in NYC, the pandemic has only affirmed that I want to be here and see value in it. Even in the limited state, so many things I have access to simply wouldn't be in other areas, and I know many people who moved away temporarily for economic reasons who are very much not doing as well mentally and are looking forward to being back in the city.

I don't see why we have to polarize or categorize this trend as it seems like a win/win if this continues: people who don't like cities move out, that lowers prices, and suddenly more people who do enjoy city living can afford them. This has the potential to solve diversity issues in cities, both in class/culture (potentially slowing or even reversing gentrification) and industry (less tech people in SF). This sounds like it could be a second wave of white flight, sans racism, and I'm here for it.

If you don't like cities, I am truly happy for you to move out, both for your own mental state and happiness and for freeing up space in the city for people who will be happier. How long this trend lasts as remote work lessens along with the eventual (macro) end of the pandemic, we will have to wait and see.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#193

Post by lotsofpulp »

98Windows wrote: post #184
pyrrhotech wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yea, I agree the natural beauty is astounding. It's the extreme left wing, near Bolshevik culture and attitude that has destroyed it for me. I say this as a lifelong democrat.

[flagged]

I don’t know about SF specific policies, but I’ve met some people that consider parental leave, non compete bans, sick leave, environmental laws, and basically anything else to help the general public to be “extreme left”.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#194

Post by pyrrhotech »

98Windows wrote: post #184
pyrrhotech wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yea, I agree the natural beauty is astounding. It's the extreme left wing, near Bolshevik culture and attitude that has destroyed it for me. I say this as a lifelong democrat.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#195

Post by 01100011 »

kbos87 wrote: post #24

It seems very tough to draw any conclusions on this just yet. The media has clearly latched onto a storyline of a mass exodus from American cities, but the reality is probably much more complex. It seems plausible that SF already had such low inventory numbers that any change would look huge on a chart like this, though that doesn’t appear to be the case in the other highly competitive markets seen here. I’d love to…

What does the current distribution of population by age in the US look like? I would bet that younger people tend to flock to the cities more, and as they age they leave for the suburbs and the country. If that's the case, there may be demographic shifts which will combine with other factors to affect a prolonged shift away from the cities.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#196

Post by [deleted] »

wwwwwwwww wrote: post #34
Shivetya wrote: post #19

Somehow completely ignoring the issue with how the homeless have made many areas of the city uninviting. The pandemic is being exploited by both business and politicians alike to mask underlying issues in hopes of getting a free pass. The old don't look behind the curtain. Protest violence isn't helping any city; and the lie about Federal agents causing it was silences with continued violence long after they left; an…

> how the homeless have made many areas of the city uninviting That's a very ugly sentence. Its is not "the homeless" who made the city uninviting. That is like saying "the sick made this hospital uninviting". Homeless people need help. They are people in distress. Those who made the city uninviting are self-centered voters, who apparently can't give two shits about the situation, and keep voting people into power wh…

[deleted]

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#197

Post by gkop »

vecinu wrote: post #132
tjr225 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiking/cycling/camping can be crazy socially distant and probably one of the best things you can do for your own mental and physical health right now. A ride up Tam isn’t going to be any more or less dangerous than it was before. Outside of a few extremely popular spots it is not restricted in Washington, at least to my knowledge. If it is in the Bay/CA then it is news to me. In any case, that stuff will still be the…

Hiking in the Bay Area is extremely difficult right now. You have to wear a mask EVERYWHERE outside where you are near people. On trails with 90+F weather you have to put your mask on every 30 seconds with how many people there are, it's a mess. My mental health is not improving when there are a million people all trying to do outdoor activities in the limited space we have nearby.

Try a hiking loop in the Oakland hills parking at Redwood Bowl. The redwood canopy preserves a pleasant climate. It’s a popular spot but not bad like you’re describing. Yes you need to wear a mask much of the time, but you can get a comfortable mask that’s easy to flip on and off, it’s not a big deal.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#198

Post by stale2002 »

wwwwwwwww wrote: post #112
paul_f wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Semantics, we all know what the poster meant. Whatever the cause, the homeless make large swaths of San Francisco unappealing, especially for people with young families. BTW, quite the irony that the most liberal city in the country has the biggest homeless problem. Whatever they're doing isn't working, maybe they should try something different?

Again, its society and its lack of compassion does it. Not "the homeless".

Regardless, the issue still remains that this problem makes the city less attractive as a place to live, and it is a problem that bothers people.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#199

Post by wwwwwwwww »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #172
wwwwwwwww wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, its society and its lack of compassion does it. Not "the homeless".

If SF decided to show compassion and start spending the massive amounts of money needed to help the homeless via education or mental health facilities, every other municipality in the country will start shipping people in. This isn’t a problem any city or state can address. It’s only solvable on a federal level, and that’s only because there is a military to enforce borders.

So you decide to not help people, because then you would need to help people?

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#200

Post by chrisco255 »

adjkant wrote: post #192

These HN comments don't seem to grasp that there are two distinct groups of people here, and these trends can/will counteract eachother: the ones that are in the city for work, and the ones that are in the city because they love cities. COVID creates an exodus of one, but people in the latter category are also moving into cities as well as prices drop and they are no longer priced out. HN folks love to complain about…

Do you mind giving examples of what you have access to in NYC when so many things are shuttered right now?

As for "white flight" it's more of a "white collar flight" where people with money and resources and higher income remote jobs will leave as long as living conditions suck.

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