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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

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Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#261

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

wandereronhn wrote: post #229
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with the dichotomy here. There's no "more than" about it; interfacing with people is one of the most important ways that white collar professionals produce value for a company.

Thankfully we have technologies now that have moved beyond smoke signals and we can actually talk to people without being in visible range.

Most people I know, me included, are willing to go much further out of our way to accommodate those we've met and interact with in person. That's a large part of why things like industry conferences exist, despite how obvious it is that they're an ineffective and tremendously expensive way to communicate information.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#262

Post by refurb »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #241
justchilly wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you make $250k in SF (sounds high, but about average for the people I know that are leaving SF), state income tax alone is $19,996. If you make that in Texas, state income tax is $0. That $20k/year is for many people a bigger deal than the cost of living. Most people I know leaving were home owners or rent controlled. Source: moved to Austin in June.

lmao at the idea of caring about $20k when you make $250k

8% of your income?

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#263

Post by Nursie »

mrgordon wrote: post #256
adjkant wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you underestimate the density of restaurants and cuisines available. No suburb I have encountered gets close to matching this situation. Suburbs also typically require cars, something I don't own and never want to own. I don't want a backyard either as that just means another thing to maintain against entropy! All of this to say, it depends on what you value :)

Yeah I’m not sure why people don’t get that walking past the climbing gym, a hundred varied restaurants, and a wide assortment of local shops on the way home is different than driving 20 minutes to go eat or go to the gym. My complaint about all these articles is prices have barely changed in NY and SF but they all like to proclaim some huge shift. Every time I check to see if there really are major discounts and I’m…

I think people get it, but they also get that in lockdown these benefits disappear.

There was an interesting article in the guardian newspaper early in the UK lockdown that looked at the implicit social contract in city life - I may live in a small apartment, perhaps even sharing it with several others, but that is less important when the city is outside my door, it's just somewhere to sleep. If the city effectively ceases to be outside your door for weeks or months, you may decide that having a bigger place of your own with your own outdoor space is actually a pretty good prospect. And that thought may not go away even when things open up again.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#264

Post by Nasrudith »

sftoss31337 wrote: post #207
justchilly wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those Felicias are the majority of the tax base, and fund all of the initiatives that rebuild communities. Falling housing prices -> falling property taxes -> less funding for schools. Even the new revenue tax passed last year to fund homeless programs is based employees being in SF, when they leave, no more funding. Not to mention all the money the Felicias pump into the local economy by ubering to brunch to buy the…

Shrug. Rationalize their existance all you want, but we will get by just fine. Do you know why San Francisco has always been expensive? Because it’s so worth it. We will do just fine without the parasitic green-eyed monsters who have invaded our homes since Web 2.0.

That is a strange definition of parasitic - having a claim to it other than whose vagina they exited.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#265

Post by john_moscow »

andreilys wrote: post #246
adjkant wrote: post #192

These HN comments don't seem to grasp that there are two distinct groups of people here, and these trends can/will counteract eachother: the ones that are in the city for work, and the ones that are in the city because they love cities. COVID creates an exodus of one, but people in the latter category are also moving into cities as well as prices drop and they are no longer priced out. HN folks love to complain about…

> “ Even in the limited state, so many things I have access to simply wouldn't be in other areas“ Such as? I genuinely don’t see any appeal in living in a city during a global pandemic when there are massive restrictions on what you can do. Yes pre-covid the appeal of a City was great. But post covid? I think you get a lot more bang for your buck outside of the city (I.e. living in Tahoe or even smaller cities like S…

> It truly boggles the mind that the local government does nothing to help the situation and often puts policies in place that exacerbate the situation.

Pardon my cynicism, but too many tax dollars are spent on just maintaining the status quo. And a lot of them go into the maintainers' management fee.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#266

Post by adjkant »

shortandsweet wrote: post #253
adjkant wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you mind giving examples of what you have access to in NYC when so many things are shuttered right now? Right now, I've basically reallocated my budget of city activities towards local restaurants, and I've been eating a ton of great delivery. As the cases have slowed, I'm cautiously considering outdoor dining. Either way, I'm eating great food right now. I live in Brooklyn, so Prospect Park (central park of the…

Take your fake wall. I have the sierras at my back door.

And I'm happy for you! I'm not saying everyone values the same things, I'm just sharing my perspective and noting that it's not an uncommon one within the context of what this means at an economic and cultural level. For someone who strongly values being directly in nature, I'd certainly point them in your direction before mine!

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#267

Post by shortandsweet »

baddox wrote: post #258
shortandsweet wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take your fake wall. I have the sierras at my back door.

I love the Sierras and have spent a lot of nights in the backcountry, but good luck getting any permits now. Pre-pandemic it was already extremely difficult. Now you need to get up at 7am and grab a day use ticket to even enter Yosemite (or even drive through!).

Sure, I agree, certainly permits are required in some locations yes. But you can usually find something available. Even locations off the beaten path. There are a lot more options to climb along the hundreds of miles of mountain range when compared to a city.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#268

Post by andreilys »

adjkant wrote: post #252
andreilys wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “ Even in the limited state, so many things I have access to simply wouldn't be in other areas“ Such as? I genuinely don’t see any appeal in living in a city during a global pandemic when there are massive restrictions on what you can do. Yes pre-covid the appeal of a City was great. But post covid? I think you get a lot more bang for your buck outside of the city (I.e. living in Tahoe or even smaller cities like S…

See this thread + some other replies, but it seems I'm far from alone on this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24180321

So delivery food and an outdoor rock climbing gym. None of these are exclusive to living in NYC/SF.

You can learn to cook (or hell even hire your own private chef with the money you save) while living near an actual mountain with much better rock climbing capabilities and ample access to rock climbing coaches.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#269

Post by Spooky23 »

adjkant wrote: post #192

These HN comments don't seem to grasp that there are two distinct groups of people here, and these trends can/will counteract eachother: the ones that are in the city for work, and the ones that are in the city because they love cities. COVID creates an exodus of one, but people in the latter category are also moving into cities as well as prices drop and they are no longer priced out. HN folks love to complain about…

I love NYC and although work and life took me elsewhere I have lots of family and friends who live there and spend a fair amount of time there.

The city will survive, but the coming years will be tough. It’s not as diversified economy as it once was, and the financial underpinnings of NY state and city are very much tied to a pretty shockingly small number of people.

You might say “government? Whatevs”, but remember that things like Medicaid keep the wheels on the NYC bus so to speak, and the city and state fund half of that.

Be careful what you wish for. If the gentrified tech and finance bros pull out, the city is going to be well fucked.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#270

Post by deepakhj »

pyrrhotech wrote: post #158

Not sure why anyone would choose to live in SF except for geographic-specific opportunities. It's a dirty, overcrowded and high tax pit, and everyone living there that isn't in tech or finance hates you for your success.

The city is going off right now, especially with summer here. Ocean beach, golden gate park, etc are all packed. Many streets have put in park let’s and embracing outdoor dining. If bars serve food, you can get drinks outside. I would agree soma/downtown is a ghost town, but it’s easy to visit other areas. Most high end restaurants are doing pickup and delivery via tock, giving you access to high end food without the 3 hour meal.
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