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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

wsj.com

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Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#41

Post by roenxi »

37r7rudjduj wrote: post #32
kbos87 wrote: post #24

It seems very tough to draw any conclusions on this just yet. The media has clearly latched onto a storyline of a mass exodus from American cities, but the reality is probably much more complex. It seems plausible that SF already had such low inventory numbers that any change would look huge on a chart like this, though that doesn’t appear to be the case in the other highly competitive markets seen here. I’d love to…

> The media has clearly latched onto a storyline of a mass exodus from American cities, but the reality is probably much more complex. But isn't the point of the article that San Francisco specifically is seeing an exceptional exodus? The story even mentions San Jose as a regional counter example to the observations being made of SF.

Something strange might be happening to do with a very local effect - maybe a couple of large employers permanently went remote first resulting in a temporary blip.

It is obvious from the charts that something unusual happened in SF. But that is different from it being sustained, not about to reverse or even important. The dust hasn't even finished rising from COVID-19 yet, let alone settled. And it isn't even clear this is COVID-19 related.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#42

Post by [deleted] »

x87678r wrote: post #20

Whenever I see % increase as a headline you can be confident that its using percentages in order to make a misleading point. Sure enough a few paragraphs down: > It should be noted that San Francisco had an unusually low inventory relative to other large cities prior to the pandemic. Maybe there are a lot of people selling, but you can ignore this particular stat.

[deleted]

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#43

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

wwwwwwwww wrote: post #34
Shivetya wrote: post #19

Somehow completely ignoring the issue with how the homeless have made many areas of the city uninviting. The pandemic is being exploited by both business and politicians alike to mask underlying issues in hopes of getting a free pass. The old don't look behind the curtain. Protest violence isn't helping any city; and the lie about Federal agents causing it was silences with continued violence long after they left; an…

> how the homeless have made many areas of the city uninviting That's a very ugly sentence. Its is not "the homeless" who made the city uninviting. That is like saying "the sick made this hospital uninviting". Homeless people need help. They are people in distress. Those who made the city uninviting are self-centered voters, who apparently can't give two shits about the situation, and keep voting people into power wh…

Helping the homeless is a huge chunk of the city’s budget. I could see an argument that it’s not being spent on the right things, but the idea that city voters don’t care about the situation really doesn’t make sense to me.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#44

Post by etrautmann »

D895n9o33436N42 wrote: post #39
wwwwwwwww wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how the homeless have made many areas of the city uninviting That's a very ugly sentence. Its is not "the homeless" who made the city uninviting. That is like saying "the sick made this hospital uninviting". Homeless people need help. They are people in distress. Those who made the city uninviting are self-centered voters, who apparently can't give two shits about the situation, and keep voting people into power wh…

> That is like saying "the sick made this hospital uninviting". But the sick do make a hospital uninviting! Think of all those heart attack patients who opted not to visit their local emergency department. Heart attacks are still happening regardless of how many additional patients are at the hospital due to infection.

This misses the point the parent was making.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#45

Post by x87678r »

jurassic wrote: post #26
danhak wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Property taxes in California are among the lowest in the nation.

Property taxes are not that relevant for the masses who can't afford to buy property.

It is because a big chunk of your rent goes to property taxes. Where I am property taxes are $1k a month for a $3k/mo apartment.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#46

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

_8j50 wrote: post #36
Shivetya wrote: post #19

Somehow completely ignoring the issue with how the homeless have made many areas of the city uninviting. The pandemic is being exploited by both business and politicians alike to mask underlying issues in hopes of getting a free pass. The old don't look behind the curtain. Protest violence isn't helping any city; and the lie about Federal agents causing it was silences with continued violence long after they left; an…

Ok, give the homeless homes and don't complain about homeless shelters in your upscale neighborhood. Reform police, there are major american cities with protests and minimal violence. You complain about symptoms with no regard for the root cause.

I guess I’m not sure who you’re telling this to. Most people don’t have the time or energy to lead city reforms on their own. Their choices are to stay or leave, and it seems an increasing number of people are picking leave.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#47

Post by ravenstine »

Putting any valid criticism of this article aside, anecdotally, I know a bunch of people who have either left or are in the process of leaving California in the last few months. One of them just left SF. In other news, one of my cousins is seriously working towards moving out of NY. 3 of my team members have moved to smaller parts of the country.

Simply speaking, my gut tells me this isn't just about San Francisco. They don't have a monopoly on overexpensive housing, homelessness, drug problems, feces, violence, or taxes.

Again, anecdotal, but I think the exodus is real, and it's not hard to see why. We're going to soon hit a point where apologists for cities will no longer be able to defend them. I would love to live in a city if it didn't both punish success and fail to help those whom are truly in need.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#48

Post by paul_f »

wwwwwwwww wrote: post #34
Shivetya wrote: post #19

Somehow completely ignoring the issue with how the homeless have made many areas of the city uninviting. The pandemic is being exploited by both business and politicians alike to mask underlying issues in hopes of getting a free pass. The old don't look behind the curtain. Protest violence isn't helping any city; and the lie about Federal agents causing it was silences with continued violence long after they left; an…

> how the homeless have made many areas of the city uninviting That's a very ugly sentence. Its is not "the homeless" who made the city uninviting. That is like saying "the sick made this hospital uninviting". Homeless people need help. They are people in distress. Those who made the city uninviting are self-centered voters, who apparently can't give two shits about the situation, and keep voting people into power wh…

Semantics, we all know what the poster meant. Whatever the cause, the homeless make large swaths of San Francisco unappealing, especially for people with young families. BTW, quite the irony that the most liberal city in the country has the biggest homeless problem. Whatever they're doing isn't working, maybe they should try something different?

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#49

Post by ghaff »

bamboozled wrote: post #40

Have others noticed this kind of "revolt against cities" attitude lately too? I do wonder if people consider the huge advantages city living can provide? I'm reading constantly that current dream is buying a plot of land in the middle no where, signing up for StarLink and growing watermelons while trying to work a full time engineering job. The thing is though, this is all just a temporary thing, even if this pandemi…

On the other hand, in the US, people had been net migrating out of many cities--including today's "elite" cities--until around the late 90s for about the previous 40-50 years. The current idea that young people all want to live in cities is relatively recent. When I graduated from grad school in the mid-80s, essentially no one from my class who went to work in the Boston area actually lived in the city.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#50

Post by paul_f »

bamboozled wrote: post #40

Have others noticed this kind of "revolt against cities" attitude lately too? I do wonder if people consider the huge advantages city living can provide? I'm reading constantly that current dream is buying a plot of land in the middle no where, signing up for StarLink and growing watermelons while trying to work a full time engineering job. The thing is though, this is all just a temporary thing, even if this pandemi…

What has changed is near universal availability of high speed wireless. Followed by a national experiment in remote working. You don't have to live in the city to have a lucrative tech job.
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