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Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

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Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#391

Post by dathinab »

giarc wrote: post #186
daveidol wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an "undeniable right" but it's also not like there are a lot of other options. You can say "just move to another platform" or "then make your own platform" but you also have to be a realist. This is why antitrust laws exist - sometimes the market realities make this nearly impossible.

But where is the line of lots of options vs not a lot of options? iOS isn't even the most popular mobile operating system.

But does that matter when they have milions of people in that marked. Isn't that a size where it really shouldn't matter anymore if there is another similar bigger marked?

Also for some serivces iOs users are the large majority, like more or less any "real premium" service (Like apps you have to pay 10 or so+$ a month or 100+$ when buying them).

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#392

Post by mmastrac »

parasubvert wrote: post #390
smnrchrds wrote: post #160

Discussion of Apple topics here on HN almost always gets reduced to the argument that Apple is not a monopoly, so what they are doing is OK. I want to present an alternative viewpoint. It's not a monopoly issue, it is an anti-competitive issue. In Canada, we have three major cell carriers. None of them has a monopoly, or anything close to it. None of them has even 50% market share. You can have a 10 GB smartphone pla…

A market equilibrium is reached and it’s called anti-competitive behaviour. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. I suppose the state could implement price controls and force Rogers et al to lower their prices. That worked well in the past!

Market equilibrium !== collusion and it's difficult to tell them apart.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#393

Post by lliamander »

dathinab wrote: post #376
lliamander wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A game console is not general purpose computing device?

Yes it only runs games (and maybe multimedia). Phone run everything from games over office apps to unlocking you apartment doors or handling the check-in at a hotel (yes some hotels have app based check-in). (And in the end Apps is just a handy short form of Application, so you could say even the name kinda implicates this ;=) )

That's a software limitation, not a hardware limitation. An iPhone is also a general purpose computer that is limited (to a lesser extent ) by the software.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#394

Post by tazedsoul »

tazedsoul wrote: post #371
sercand wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic games kind of Tencent (a Chinese company) subsidiary, it has 40% share.

There are about 5 times as many TikTok users as Fortnite players. I suppose that is a part of the calculation as well.

Also, perhaps I’m mistaken, but the majority of Epic Games is owned by Tim Sweeney. Meanwhile, TikTok majority is owned by ByteDance, which I don’t think we can confidently believe is truly a separate, sovereign entity from the CPC. And all this is somewhat besides the point; Apple is clearly more dependent on TikTok (China) than Epic Games.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#395

Post by khuey »

Tehnix wrote: post #344
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't practical without an electronic sign.

In all the parts of the world I’ve been in, I’ve never seen a gas station without an electronic sign?

You must be pretty young then.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#396

Post by akmarinov »

threeseed wrote: post #168
akmarinov wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple takes 0.15% of every transaction that used Apple Pay, though- https://www.macrumors.com/2014/09/12/more-apple-pay-details/ They haven’t developed it to not make money off of it.

Mastercard, Visa etc all take a fee for transactions. There are serious costs involved in running an international payments system. But that's very different from a proper 30% style cut.

They've made about $500 mil off of it in 2018 - https://9to5mac.com/2020/02/12/apple-pay-revenue/

Heading to a billion and beyond in the next couple of years.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#397

Post by kazinator »

musicale wrote: post #235
smnrchrds wrote: post #160

Discussion of Apple topics here on HN almost always gets reduced to the argument that Apple is not a monopoly, so what they are doing is OK. I want to present an alternative viewpoint. It's not a monopoly issue, it is an anti-competitive issue. In Canada, we have three major cell carriers. None of them has a monopoly, or anything close to it. None of them has even 50% market share. You can have a 10 GB smartphone pla…

I think this is called tacit collusion. You see something like this with gasoline pricing - major brands will have "competing" stations across the street from each other, but their prices moves in lock step without a race to the bottom. Memory vendors have explicitly colluded in the past, but they really didn't need to - they just needed to copy their competitors' posted pricing. Presumably that is what they do now.…

I don't think so; the situation of copying the posted price can easily trigger a price war. It is not stable, unless someone is designated as the price master, and the others are slaves. That's the only thing which can explain that the prices can go wildly up and down, yet in lock step.

Everyone acting in complete independence, simply copying everyone else, cannot lead to stability, let alone the durable, persistent lock-step stability that is seen.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#398

Post by agentdrtran »

zo1 wrote: post #389
dathinab wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This should not matter, if it does then it would be hard to call the US a "constitutional state"/"state of law".

Motives matter, and taking the motives of foreign-owned businesses into account when dealing with one of the largest businesses in the US is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. What if the motive behind this is to just destabilize the price of Apple? What if it's part of a large campaign to destabilize a lot of US companies, not just this one?

I think Apple will be fine if it's forced to allow non-app store payments, Google seems to be doing fine

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#399

Post by aaomidi »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #381
aaomidi wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the fact that no one made a fuss over consoles. I'd argue the same rules should start applying for them as well. But there was nothing stopping Microsoft from releasing halo onto the playstation. There is nothing stopping anyone from developing a game for these consoles.

And there is nothing stopping Epic from releasing Fortnite on the iPhone (in-fact it was there for years). The rules could be unfair[1] but this issue is just Epic not wanting to follow the rules to make some more money. [1] We can discuss what a fair price/percentage should be. Arguably the market and Apple customers have decided 30% is fair, but we can discuss. Meanwhile, side-loading or not charging would make my…

Well the unfair part is what is being discussed. So ignoring that would be ignoring the whole point of this.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#400

Post by smabie »

smnrchrds wrote: post #160

Discussion of Apple topics here on HN almost always gets reduced to the argument that Apple is not a monopoly, so what they are doing is OK. I want to present an alternative viewpoint. It's not a monopoly issue, it is an anti-competitive issue. In Canada, we have three major cell carriers. None of them has a monopoly, or anything close to it. None of them has even 50% market share. You can have a 10 GB smartphone pla…

It's likely that the investors in each company are mostly the same institutions, namely index funds and ETFs issuers. When you have investors that own everything, they don't want the companies to compete.
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