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Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

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Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#151

Post by debacle »

ecf wrote: post #91
slongfield wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a developer doesn't like Unreal's terms, there are other game engines. If a developer doesn't like Apple's terms, there are no viable alternatives for iOS distribution.

But there are other Smartphone platforms with their own store, correct? I don’t know why people feel it’s their undeniable right to be able to provide an app to iOS users.

> I don’t know why people feel it’s their undeniable right to be able to provide an app to iOS users.

Rephrased:

> I don't know why people feel it's their undeniable right to install the apps they want on iOS.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#152

Post by pjmlp »

xoxoy wrote: post #90
ecf wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t Epic take a cut out of every single purchase made of a game built with Unreal Engine? Seems kinda hypocritical that they’re taking this stance when their licensing model is arguably just as burdensome on developers. In my opinion, Epic should not put their app on the App Store if they don’t like the terms, just as they would tell a developer to not use their engine if they don’t like the terms.

30% is extremely high by any reasonable standard for any marketplace

On the contrary, it is quite low versus what previous app stores for J2ME, Symbian, ringtones used to charge for.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#153

Post by baddox »

daveidol wrote: post #122
ecf wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there are other Smartphone platforms with their own store, correct? I don’t know why people feel it’s their undeniable right to be able to provide an app to iOS users.

It's not an "undeniable right" but it's also not like there are a lot of other options. You can say "just move to another platform" or "then make your own platform" but you also have to be a realist. This is why antitrust laws exist - sometimes the market realities make this nearly impossible.

It’s no more realistic to say “if you don’t like the licensing terms of your game engine then just rewrite your game.”

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#154

Post by lazzlazzlazz »

yladiz wrote: post #126
slongfield wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a developer doesn't like Unreal's terms, there are other game engines. If a developer doesn't like Apple's terms, there are no viable alternatives for iOS distribution.

It's a false dichotomy; the correct comparison is: If a developer doesn't like Apple's terms, there are other phone platforms.

No, there is one other phone platform.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#156

Post by zionic »

threatofrain wrote: post #21
FreakyT wrote: post #4

Really hoping regulators crack down hard on Apple's clearly anticompetitive practices. If Apple allowed sideloading the entire point would be, of course, moot, but Apple's continued refusal to allow this is really the biggest problem, IMO.

As a user I'm quite happy with Apple intermediating my relationship with companies that seek to do business with me over the phone, and I'd actually be happier if Apple took over more of my relationships. I don't want a situation where 10 apps means 10 different privacy agreements. I also don't want to deal with app companies directly for returns or their custom payment solutions — an "Amazon" is way better.

And this is your choice, should you limit your use to the app store.

Now explain why the rest of us have to be limited to your choice only on our $1000+ mobile computers.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#157

Post by pjmlp »

xoxoy wrote: post #141
molszanski wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't like every online "platform" take 30% cut? Google play, playstation store, steam, xbox store, nintendo store?

bad argument since Apple set the precedent and everyone else followed.

Apple set a new lower precedent versus J2ME, Symbian, ringtone app stores.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#158

Post by arduinomancer »

jdmoreira wrote: post #113

People will take sides in this and I think they will be missing the point. These are just 2 greedy corporations strong-arming each other and trying to win some hearts in the public space. Epic would do the same if they were in Apple's position and Apple would do the same if they were in Epic's position. This is just 21st century politics and it’s all about money.

I don't think that matters because its clear the end consumer would benefit here if epic were allowed their own payment system.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#159

Post by jariel »

This is great news, it will take a handfull of 'killer apps' to possibly move the needle.

App makers could start to 'play games' like trying different pricing models that 'go outside the bounds' and the 'come back' - making sure to blame Apple for the problems.

App makers could group together and 'go black' for a few days in protes.

App makers could group together and all circumvent the rules at the same time.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#160

Post by smnrchrds »

Discussion of Apple topics here on HN almost always gets reduced to the argument that Apple is not a monopoly, so what they are doing is OK. I want to present an alternative viewpoint. It's not a monopoly issue, it is an anti-competitive issue.

In Canada, we have three major cell carriers. None of them has a monopoly, or anything close to it. None of them has even 50% market share.

You can have a 10 GB smartphone plan with Rogers for $75. If you don't like that, you can switch to Bell's 10 GB plan for $75. If you don't like Bell, of course you can switch to Telus's 10 GB plan for, wait for it, $75.

The Big 3 operate smaller brands with fewer bells and whistles and lower costs. You can get a 4 GB cell plan from Koodo (Telus subsidiary) for $50, or from Fido (Rogers subsidiary) for $50, or from Virgin Mobile (Bell subsidiary) for $50.

Sometimes one of them has promotional pricing, like $45 instead of $50 for 4GB. The other two offer the same pricing for the same duration. Sometimes one of them increases their prices by $5 a month citing reasons such as infrastructure investments, lower Canadian dollar value, or inflation. The other two increase their prices by the same amount a couple of days later.

And none of this is collusion in the legal sense. They don't gather in smoke-filled rooms and decide how to screw over their customers. There is not back-channel communication whatsoever. And it is not because the competition is so perfect the prices have been commoditized. In fact, Canada has some of the highest cell plan prices in the world, even adjusting for factors such as population density and GDP.

It's just that the big companies have decided to stop competing. If you live in, say Alberta or Ontario or BC, you have three options and they are all the same overpriced crap. Cell carriers in Canada are not a monopoly, but you don't have to be a monopoly to harm customers with anti-competitive behaviour. Apple and Google, Android and iOS do not have a monopoly or a collusion agreement. But they are harming the customers all the same.

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