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US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#851

Post by yibg »

cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

Regardless if it’s justified or not I think this is a bad move by the US on the global stage.

The US just banned apps that didn’t break any law, for vague “national security” reasons. And due to the global reach of American tech companies it becomes effectively a global ban.

Now every country that’s not the US will need to 1) think twice about doing business in the US and 2) re-examine American control over the products and services their citizens can and cannot receive. Specifically Apple and google in this case.

Most countries and companies are already cautious when doing business in China because of the unpredictable and arbitrary nature of doing business in China. Now the US is headed towards the same direction.

So congratulations, the US is becoming more and more like China. Doesn’t sound like a win to me.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#852

Post by president »

supernova87a wrote: post #244

Regardless of how I feel about this particular company or transaction, to me this is a bad overreach of presidential power. I guess it's merely a reflection of the incompetence/inaction of Congress to study the matter and do something about it, as is their responsibility. Why do I say so? 1. The justification for this is that it's a "national emergency with respect to the information and communications technology and…

Please do some research before you downplay one of the most significant geo political events of our time. China poses an existential threat to democracy and freedom of the western world and we are (and have been) in a cold war with China. While you bask in your normalcy bias, realize that your ability to complain about your government is due to the fact that others before you have fought for your right to do so. If you care about the progress we have made and the future for your and others' children, you would not want the next century to be a Chinese century.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#853

Post by mikechen233 »

minusSeven wrote: post #720
cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

I think China already promised that one or two years ago during the trade war with US but nothing major has come of it. I doubt China would follow through because it can have potential consequence in their censorships rules. I guess eventually all other countries would resort to having laws specific to handling Chinese companies and all laws common for companies of all other countries.

China already enacted foreign investments law. Tesla uses it to enter the Chinese market freely. Build factories, sale electric vehicles, enjoy all tax and subsidy that local companies are. And so will VW, and any other auto maker. IP protection is strengthening as well. In the areas of internet service there is still the internet security law, which requires all internet services providers to store data locally and moderate content. Google fb Twitter doesn't want to comply so they don't operate in that market. Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, Uber, Airbnb and more are complying so they are operating in China. In other sectors, it's already open access to Chinese market and equality between local and foreign businesses. China is responding to criticisms.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#854

Post by loceng »

chillacy wrote: post #274
rapsey wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Justifications are meaningless. The US wants to curtail Chinese influence and power, so it finds some mumbo-jumbo to justify it.

This plays right into China's narrative. Now the arrest of Meng Wanzhou (Huawei CTO) starts to look a bit less principled and a bit more like a piece of realpolitik. I think it's definitely justified in the sense that it's understandable to strike back, but it's hard to take a moral high ground now.

[flagged]

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#855

Post by mariojv »

dvcrn wrote: post #403
ejanus wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong! How come same companies you mentioned are doing well every other place except in China? Don't you see this as odd?

This isn't an argument. In most countries you have some local competitors that do better than global brands. Not every app has to be a global success to be highly profitable Korea has KakaoTalk that's undefeated as the defacto chat app (and now search engine and payment provider). It's not doing well in every other place except Korea. Japan has LINE as it's primary messenger, payment app, etc. It has some foot in oth…

LINE is owned by a South Korean company, so it's not really a good example of a local brand.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#856

Post by [deleted] »

joey_bob wrote: post #820
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why "the entire western world"? As an European, why should we align with the US in this? The EU doesn't have any tech giant because, contrary to China, we have received US tech giants with open arms. So our economies bleed money and lose jobs to the likes of Amazon, because hey, "the free market". What do we stand to gain by siding with US companies in this US companies vs. China companies wars? Perhaps it would be b…

> Now that the US has shown it can ban foreign tech companies if it's in their own interest, and all the moralizing talk about the free market has been exposed as the self-serving propaganda it has always been, what reason do be exactly have to keep playing this game where we are the biggest losers? One of the ideas behind the structure of our republic is that there can be peaceful changes in power between different…

[deleted]

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#857

Post by bart_spoon »

tobias3 wrote: post #433
ejanus wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if Chinese social media firms are freely operating in the USA why can't the likes of FB and Twitter be allowed same free access in their market. Let's not see this as harming anybody but this is one of the ways to force China to open up and allow foreign businesses(social media) to spread in their domain. Imagine being forced to open a WeChat account just to chat with someone in China. If this kind of business mo…

China does it, so it is okay for us to do it is just a very weak defense of this behaviour for us looking at this from outside of China and the US. The US stood for free markets, democracy and human rights and (at least) pretended to make international decisions based on those values. Now the fig leaf is gone and it is clear that those are mostly used to make transactions to US benefit even if it comes at the cost to…

> China does it, so it is okay for us to do it is just a very weak defense of this behaviour for us looking at this from outside of China and the US.

Hardly. Reciprocity is common place in all manners of international relations, be it trade, visas/travel, embassy restrictions, and even warfare. The fact that China has been allowed to conduct themselves this way with little to no retaliation is the outlier, not these new actions.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#858

Post by will4274 »

alluro2 wrote: post #751
cwhiz wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China doesn’t allow many western companies to operate in China. Why should the US allow Chinese companies to operate in the US?? This is an outrage that we should not allow. They steal our intellectual property, create state funded companies that are given monopoly access to their markets, and then unleash their stolen products on the world market. And if American or other western companies try to compete on the grou…

When you say "steal" and "imbalance that China has created" - you expect to move almost all design, planning and manufacturing to China gradually over decades of time, give them all the technology because they are just "low-level workers", embrace what they build themselves because it's cheaper and good enough, and for them to be happy, in perpetuum, to receive a fraction of the profits? This situation was not create…

I find your comment to be in bad faith. You failed to address Chinese bans of American companies, which was the thrust of parent's comment, and which is obviously the unfair imbalance China created. Quoting imbalance but ignoring the example is bad faith.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#859

Post by arcticbull »

youeseh wrote: post #793
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why "the entire western world"? As an European, why should we align with the US in this? The EU doesn't have any tech giant because, contrary to China, we have received US tech giants with open arms. So our economies bleed money and lose jobs to the likes of Amazon, because hey, "the free market". What do we stand to gain by siding with US companies in this US companies vs. China companies wars? Perhaps it would be b…

- Does the US prevent European tech companies from doing business in America? - Does the US prevent European people from finding work, moving to, and purchasing property in America?

> - Does the US prevent European people from finding work, moving to, and purchasing property in America?

Yes, regularly, via extensive caps and quotas on visas. That has to be a trick question. As of last year if a European wanted to work in America they had to pony up $6K+ for a 1 in 3 chance in April of landing an H1B for a job that couldn’t start until September.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#860

Post by smolder »

joey_bob wrote: post #820
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why "the entire western world"? As an European, why should we align with the US in this? The EU doesn't have any tech giant because, contrary to China, we have received US tech giants with open arms. So our economies bleed money and lose jobs to the likes of Amazon, because hey, "the free market". What do we stand to gain by siding with US companies in this US companies vs. China companies wars? Perhaps it would be b…

> Now that the US has shown it can ban foreign tech companies if it's in their own interest, and all the moralizing talk about the free market has been exposed as the self-serving propaganda it has always been, what reason do be exactly have to keep playing this game where we are the biggest losers? One of the ideas behind the structure of our republic is that there can be peaceful changes in power between different…

I, for one, am glad the TPP is dead. We can have fair international trade without giving multinational corporations "the right to a business model" and letting them seek compensation from governments through tribunal over lost profits caused by changed laws. The TPP seemed absurd in that respect.
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