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US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#751

Post by alluro2 »

cwhiz wrote: post #685
tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

China doesn’t allow many western companies to operate in China. Why should the US allow Chinese companies to operate in the US?? This is an outrage that we should not allow. They steal our intellectual property, create state funded companies that are given monopoly access to their markets, and then unleash their stolen products on the world market. And if American or other western companies try to compete on the grou…

When you say "steal" and "imbalance that China has created" - you expect to move almost all design, planning and manufacturing to China gradually over decades of time, give them all the technology because they are just "low-level workers", embrace what they build themselves because it's cheaper and good enough, and for them to be happy, in perpetuum, to receive a fraction of the profits? This situation was not created by China - it's just completely expected consequences of decades of un-strategical behavior which is now starting to bite back.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#752

Post by bigpumpkin »

cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

Meanwhile, American brands find their refuge in China:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-becomes-a-refuge-for-u-s-...

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#753

Post by cwhiz »

bradleybuda wrote: post #731
cwhiz wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China doesn’t allow many western companies to operate in China. Why should the US allow Chinese companies to operate in the US?? This is an outrage that we should not allow. They steal our intellectual property, create state funded companies that are given monopoly access to their markets, and then unleash their stolen products on the world market. And if American or other western companies try to compete on the grou…

Because allowing Chinese companies to operate in the US is good for American consumers. This isn’t a zero-sum game.

This short sighted policy is what has led to the slow decay of the American middle class.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#754

Post by Wolfenstein98k »

u801e wrote: post #662
jariel wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's only reciprocity if you divide the world into two tribes, the "China tribe" and the "US tribe". Someone from the "China tribe" did something bad to the "US tribe", so now we're going to grab a random member of the "China tribe" and punish them for it, even if they're not the one responsible. I used to think the Western world had abandoned that kind of collective punishment, but apparently not." So no - this is…

> Now enter the security issue, which is very real The national security trope really only affects the government. The global pandemic has had a far greater effect on the economy and has caused far more deaths than any national security incident or terrorist attack.

Non-sequitur.

This is like saying "don't bother locking your door, you're much more likely to get mugged outside your house than robbed inside it."

B being more likely than A does not form an argument against protecting yourself from A.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#755

Post by ctrl-alt-zen »

dominotw wrote: post #621
yorwba wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only reciprocity if you divide the world into two tribes, the "China tribe" and the "US tribe". Someone from the "China tribe" did something bad to the "US tribe", so now we're going to grab a random member of the "China tribe" and punish them for it, even if they're not the one responsible. I used to think the Western world had abandoned that kind of collective punishment, but apparently not. It ceases to be re…

> It's only reciprocity if you divide the world into two tribes, the "China tribe" and the "US tribe". It also works if we divide the world into "China tribe" and "rest of the world tribe" . Infact thats the way it always have been, now china is getting kicked out of "rest of the world tribe" . India and USA are just taking the lead, rest will follow. I am ok with that.

>I am ok with that

Don't worry everyone, domino troll w is okay losing over a billion people and assuming a New Racist World Order. Glad we heard from you on this, and you are definitely not super racist against the Chinese people

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#756

Post by xxpor »

MentallyRetired wrote: post #664
pgrote wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China. This really could be the end of the thread. For years China has banned systems and applications from other parts of the world. The fact it has taken this long to respond with action is stupefying. China would like the benefits of a…

We're not a communist dictatorship.

Neither is China

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#757

Post by Aunche »

_lsq wrote: post #539
learnstats2 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels unequal after this was called censorship and anti-democratic, being used as a basis for propaganda against China, for years?

No it's not. The Chinese government sets their (extremely authoritarian) rules on censorship for companies to legally operate in China but the rules apply to everyone equally. Chinese companies of course have to comply, but foreign companies have the choice to comply or not. Google chose to comply initially but decided to pull out later on. Microsoft/Apple choose to comply and are still operating in significant ways…

> Google chose to comply initially but decided to pull out later on.

Yeah because the Chinese government hacked them. Do they hack Chinese companies equally?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#758

Post by markus_zhang »

cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

Lots of western companies are operating in China. If they feel it's too difficult they will pull it out, but please don't act like a representative to all of them as if you know everything.

BTW please stop purchasing anything that originates from China immediately if you want to follow your own words.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#759

Post by p49k »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #741
cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

Are folks unaware of the history of westerners and trade in China, and how this kind of attitude could be interpreted by Chinese people not ignorant of their country's history? In the late 19th century Great Britain fought two Opium Wars to force China to open up its markets to British opium. The British were forcing Indian farmers to grow opium and then taking it to sell to China. They wanted access to Chinese silve…

That’s an interesting piece of history, but how is that relevant in any way to this situation? Not just the fact that modern Western civilization doesn’t resemble 19th century England, but everything about the reasons/motivation behind/specifics of this trade conflict are different.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#760

Post by tomp »

cd_2001 wrote: post #738
cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

Please excuse me for my semi-rant. I don't mean to be too critical, but I think framing every news about China in this "the West vs China" angle is really counterproductive. First of all, "the West" is a very vague concept, quite unlike talking about China. Does it include all of Europe? Does it include Moscow then? Does it include parts of Latinamerica? Maybe you mean NATO (but then you should include Turkey too). O…

Freedom, rational thought, free speech, democracy, rule of law etc. aren't "Western" values, they're "Enlightenment" values. After the "West" adopted them, it (the countries, and the people) enjoyed unprecedented improvement in living standards, a scientific boom and so on.

China is free to adopt those values anytime. In the meantime, I (and looks like many other Westerns) will be working towards ensuring that non-Enlightenment values don't creep back up into the West (from China, the Islamic world, Russia, etc. - not limited to what I wrote above but also things like corporal punishment, women's rights, separation of church and state, ...) - that would be a regression from our point of view.

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