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US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#791

Post by tomp »

fakeslimshady wrote: post #770
tomp wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom, rational thought, free speech, democracy, rule of law etc. aren't "Western" values, they're "Enlightenment" values. After the "West" adopted them, it (the countries, and the people) enjoyed unprecedented improvement in living standards, a scientific boom and so on. China is free to adopt those values anytime. In the meantime, I (and looks like many other Westerns) will be working towards ensuring that non-En…

rational thought, free speech, democracy, rule of law . Trumps administration has pushed the US backwards on all these fronts and has nothting to do with those other countries

Trump's administration has been pretty powerless to affect any meaningful change, and faces plenty of very vocal opposition on all fronts (public, legislative, courts, ...).

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#792

Post by gruez »

jeswin wrote: post #737
cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

> The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. You could use "democratic nations" instead of western world. I agree with you otherwise. What will a dictatorship do if it had hundreds of billions in trade surplus every year? Well, they are eventually going to spend it on weapons.

>You could use "democratic nations" instead of western world.

even that's problematic. "democratic" ranges from truly democratic (eg. Norway or Canada) to despotic (eg. Democratic People's Republic of Korea).

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#793

Post by youeseh »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #776
cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

Why "the entire western world"? As an European, why should we align with the US in this? The EU doesn't have any tech giant because, contrary to China, we have received US tech giants with open arms. So our economies bleed money and lose jobs to the likes of Amazon, because hey, "the free market". What do we stand to gain by siding with US companies in this US companies vs. China companies wars? Perhaps it would be b…

- Does the US prevent European tech companies from doing business in America?

- Does the US prevent European people from finding work, moving to, and purchasing property in America?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#794

Post by bordercases »

chucknthem wrote: post #769
tomp wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom, rational thought, free speech, democracy, rule of law etc. aren't "Western" values, they're "Enlightenment" values. After the "West" adopted them, it (the countries, and the people) enjoyed unprecedented improvement in living standards, a scientific boom and so on. China is free to adopt those values anytime. In the meantime, I (and looks like many other Westerns) will be working towards ensuring that non-En…

The majority of Chinese people have seen an unprecedented improvement in living standards over the past 3 decades, with scientific and engineering breakthroughs to boot. Hard to see them adopt western values from their perspective, they're doing fine without it.

You mean – with how they want to consume like Americans (where mainly your coastal city populations benefit, not your inner provinces), they get education from Americans when they go abroad for university, they transfer trade secrets from American labs, and the way 海外华人 got recalled after accumulating wealth in other countries, including America?

No dice buddy.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#795

Post by rchaud »

I don't see why the executive order can't simply be to compel Apple and Google to display warnings on the download page, or one when the app launches. They already do thisshould you dare to install something that originated outside of their walled garden.

Let the consumer make the choice whether to use it or not.

The case against Huawei at least has merit; protectionist policies against threats to strategically important industries (telecom infrastructure) has numerous precedents.

This just seems like a favour to Zuckerberg after he gave the all-clear to unfettered lying in political ads. Surely that would have no impact on "national security, foreign policy and the economy".

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#796

Post by Enginerrrd »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #776
cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

Why "the entire western world"? As an European, why should we align with the US in this? The EU doesn't have any tech giant because, contrary to China, we have received US tech giants with open arms. So our economies bleed money and lose jobs to the likes of Amazon, because hey, "the free market". What do we stand to gain by siding with US companies in this US companies vs. China companies wars? Perhaps it would be b…

[flagged]

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#797

Post by rollschild »

Let's face it: it has nothing to do with "treat people the way they treat you." It's just Trump trying to win/secure the votes from his loyal supporters.

Does TikTok grab user data and analyze them for ads, recommendations, etc? Sure, so do Instagram. But does TikTok send those data back to Chinese government so that it would potentially threaten U.S. national security? We need proof, but so far none. Here's an article of French hacker Elliot Alderson (@fs0c131y) analyzing TikTok code: https://medium.com/@fs0c131y/tiktok-logs-logs-logs-e93e81626...

So IMHO the two real reasons Trumps banned TikTok and WeChat are: 1. His supporters are mad that everything is made in China. It violates some basic economics principles but that's fine. 2. What happened to that Oklahoma rally, Trump really took it personal.

This ban put hundreds of thousands of Chinese people (including those who are already U.S. citizens or green card holders) in the U.S. to a difficult position. They don't have other ways to communicate with there friends/families in China other than WeChat. But I guess, those people (including myself), are the least important factors Trump worries about, if he even cares at all.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#798

Post by bigpumpkin »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #776
cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

Why "the entire western world"? As an European, why should we align with the US in this? The EU doesn't have any tech giant because, contrary to China, we have received US tech giants with open arms. So our economies bleed money and lose jobs to the likes of Amazon, because hey, "the free market". What do we stand to gain by siding with US companies in this US companies vs. China companies wars? Perhaps it would be b…

Yep. Why should Canada align with the US when the US just imposed a tariff on ~$8 billion of aluminum on National Security grounds:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/06/trump-says-he-signed-order-r...

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#799

Post by Aunche »

bjo590 wrote: post #694
cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

> We should outright ban any goods or technology that originates in China If we were to start that ban many of Walmart's non-grocery (and some groceries) shelves would be empty for considerable time. I'm unsure there even are alternatives that can meet US demand for everything China provides.

What's most likely to happen if we try an outright ban is that Vietnam and similar developing countries will start slapping on a "Made in Vietnam" sticker on Chinese goods and exporting them to the US.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#800

Post by vernie »

cwhiz wrote: post #708
bjo590 wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should outright ban any goods or technology that originates in China If we were to start that ban many of Walmart's non-grocery (and some groceries) shelves would be empty for considerable time. I'm unsure there even are alternatives that can meet US demand for everything China provides.

It would be a painful transition but we must do it to avoid the extremely painful long term costs of continuing this horribly lopsided arrangement with China.

Americans are famous for their love of sacrifice and compromise; this should be no problem.
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