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US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#691

Post by seebetter »

yorwba wrote: post #538
hintymad wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

It's only reciprocity if you divide the world into two tribes, the "China tribe" and the "US tribe". Someone from the "China tribe" did something bad to the "US tribe", so now we're going to grab a random member of the "China tribe" and punish them for it, even if they're not the one responsible. I used to think the Western world had abandoned that kind of collective punishment, but apparently not. It ceases to be re…

>That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes...

Thomas Jefferson wanted to invade Canada because of the Union Jack flag flying over North America.

We are a government based on natural rights. Part of our responsibility is to defend Western Civilization. It's dangerous to say that China bans US companies for merely failing to censor content. It is the US that is defending innate human rights -- we shouldn't diminish them.

We shouldn't even do business with Saudi Arabia nor China at any level. Then we could build a world based on broader principles.

Working with corrupt authoritarian governments and propping them up to create new markets is just a financial strategy of the US business class. It's why the world is so conflicted and unstable. The US supports any foreign power as long as they help the US. That's fundamentally wrong.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#692

Post by perennate »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #689
unishark wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It ceases to be reciprocal if you distinguish groups at an only slightly higher resolution: Chinese businesses like TikTok and WeChat and American businesses like Google and Facebook in addition to the Chinese and American governments. This is pretty much exactly how reciprocity works in other areas like travel and immigration. We treat their nationals as they treat ours. You can see examples worldwide right now wi…

>Congress specifically gives the president the power to counter unfair trade practices by foreign governments. The president executes the laws, he doesn't dictate them. // Those two sentences are mutually contradictory. Who has the power, the President or Congress. If it's the former, then he does dictate them; if the later then they don't give the power to the President. Pick one?

It is not contradictory at all. The parent comment stated that Congress has the power to pass the laws, which give the president the power to counter unfair trade practices. It is how the U.S. government (and most forms of democratic government) is structured, with separate legislative branch and executive branch.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#693

Post by tfcata »

cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

China has not forcefully seized foreign company's promising assets so good so it's impossible to consider for sale, by both a measly 'offer' of maybe 1/10, or less, of the market value and threatening from the leader, has it?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#694

Post by bjo590 »

cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

> We should outright ban any goods or technology that originates in China

If we were to start that ban many of Walmart's non-grocery (and some groceries) shelves would be empty for considerable time.

I'm unsure there even are alternatives that can meet US demand for everything China provides.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#695

Post by pbhjpbhj »

dominotw wrote: post #621
yorwba wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only reciprocity if you divide the world into two tribes, the "China tribe" and the "US tribe". Someone from the "China tribe" did something bad to the "US tribe", so now we're going to grab a random member of the "China tribe" and punish them for it, even if they're not the one responsible. I used to think the Western world had abandoned that kind of collective punishment, but apparently not. It ceases to be re…

> It's only reciprocity if you divide the world into two tribes, the "China tribe" and the "US tribe". It also works if we divide the world into "China tribe" and "rest of the world tribe" . Infact thats the way it always have been, now china is getting kicked out of "rest of the world tribe" . India and USA are just taking the lead, rest will follow. I am ok with that.

Why are you OK with that. Why is division between groups of people a good thing for you, is it that you want oligarchic rule to beat one-party dictatorial rule? Or you hate the Chinese fifth of the World population?

USA will polarise things until a war with China becomes inevitable forcing those who want to trade freely with both parties to pick a side.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#696

Post by michaelscott »

orbifold wrote: post #420
donw wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US lost that near-monopoly years ago. Broadly speaking, I think we're witnessing the birth of three distinct global powers. One is centered on the US, and consists (broadly) of Canada, Mexico, the rest of Latin America, the Commonwealth nations, Japan, Korea, Israel, and Taiwan. An American civil war would destabilize this to a large degree, so we'll have to see if that plays out. Edit, since people seem confused…

A German, French and Russian alliance is probably the winning move and was thwarted more than once by Anglo-Saxon intervention. Right now the US actively tries to sabotage the Nordstream 2 completion ( https://www.dw.com/de/ist-nord-stream-2-noch-zu-retten/a-538... ), which would make Germany energy independent from US controlled Gas.

The Russian and EU political and social landscapes are too at odds with each other for this to happen, at least in anything other than a doomsday scenario for both groups. Russia is more likely to join up with China than the EU.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#697

Post by bjo590 »

kgersen wrote: post #690
cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

But seen from Europe, your 'western world' = mainly USA ... which "existing western chat and social media" aren't from the US ?

kik is from Canada, but I couldn't find a European example I would consider popular.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#698

Post by dominotw »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #695
dominotw wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's only reciprocity if you divide the world into two tribes, the "China tribe" and the "US tribe". It also works if we divide the world into "China tribe" and "rest of the world tribe" . Infact thats the way it always have been, now china is getting kicked out of "rest of the world tribe" . India and USA are just taking the lead, rest will follow. I am ok with that.

Why are you OK with that. Why is division between groups of people a good thing for you, is it that you want oligarchic rule to beat one-party dictatorial rule? Or you hate the Chinese fifth of the World population? USA will polarise things until a war with China becomes inevitable forcing those who want to trade freely with both parties to pick a side.

> Or you hate the Chinese fifth of the World population?

So you are saying Chinese hate rest of the world so much that they have to block them from their internet?

I am ok with cutting of people who hate me. Does that make sense?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#699

Post by michaelscott »

donw wrote: post #531
LoSboccacc wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

where's India in all that?

Part of the Commonwealth, no?

Not in modern times no. It gained complete independence from Britain in the 50s I think? Unless you're referring to all countries that were at one time controlled by the British Empire, which I think is a little out of touch with how much those countries have diverged from one another politically since then.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#700

Post by guessbest »

bjo590 wrote: post #694
cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

> We should outright ban any goods or technology that originates in China If we were to start that ban many of Walmart's non-grocery (and some groceries) shelves would be empty for considerable time. I'm unsure there even are alternatives that can meet US demand for everything China provides.

Because the US can't provide consumer goods or because the US can't provide consumer goods at below cost to manufacture and distribute?
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