Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence • Hacker News Board

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#91

Post by ZoomerCretin » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #36

jorblumesea wrote: post #9

Ironically, giving ideological ammo to the protestors that the system is rotten to the core and needs to be completely replaced. Unmarked rented vehicles kidnapping protestors that lead to interrogations in a secret offsite location sounds a lot like the Stasi or Nazi germany. No one should be ok with this, ever. Where are the "second amendments against tyranny folks"? Oh, they probably support the police. Nice to se…

> Where are the "second amendments against tyranny folks"? Not supporting the people who blame them for violence and want to take their guns away. Does that surprise you? Perhaps there is a lesson here somewhere.

What makes you think these protesters blame all gun owners and want to take their guns away? That seems like quite the reach and an over-generalization.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#92

Post by beervirus » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:31 PM UTC

throwaway_USD wrote: post #51

gguevaraa wrote: post #4

Any lawyers or people familiar with law want to chime in on how this will turn out?

The States should prevail, because under the Constitution the Federal Government does not have police powers and under the 10th Amendment police powers are reserved for the states. Now the limit on the Federal government police powers has eroded slowly (like all limitations on the federal governments power under the constitution), so you could point to the FBI, secret service, ICE/CBP...but if the Federal Government…

When was the last time a 10th amendment argument won the day? Like 200 years ago?

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#93

Post by reaperducer » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:31 PM UTC

I see a lot of comments on HN, and elsewhere along the lines of "America is so terrible! Look how the police treat their own citizens!"

The difference between the United States and many (most?) other countries is in the article's title: The word "sue."

In America, aggrieved citizens have the right to correct their government. It's not always easy. It's rarely quick. But it can be done, and it has been done hundreds or even thousands of times in the past.

America is a work in progress. Deliberately.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#94

Post by gshulegaard » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:31 PM UTC

cwhiz wrote: post #57

“Protests.” Let’s be honest on both sides. What’s going on in Portland is violent rioting. “Demonstrators” don’t burn cars in the street, but rioters do.

Ok hold up. I actually live in Portland. There is definitely underplaying of the criminal activity going on by the media, but these are NOT riots.

Now I am not sympathetic to those who claim that Police aren't justified in declaring many of these unlawful gatherings, but I am also not sympathetic to those calling it riots. What is actually happening from my local perspective is that there are mostly peaceful protests with a minority who are engaging in criminal activity. And this is coming from someone whose building's lower windows are boarded up and has seen a rash of attempted break-ins to facilities like our mail room.

But regardless of the gray area of how local Police are trying to walk the line between shutting down criminal activity and respecting the majority's freedom of assembly, it is NOT ok for Federal Agents to be acting in any way besides securing Federal properties. Border Patrol is not local law enforcement. Federal Protective Service is not local law enforcement. Neither should have authority to do anything related to local law enforcement and they most definitely should not be doing anything off of Federal property. It's not their job to police Portland and no one wants them policing Portland; no matter what your views on the current state of unrest that much should be true.

So let me be honest, these aren't riots. Take it from a local...but also note that this local is not a participant so my perspective is from an arm's length at best.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#95

Post by beervirus » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:32 PM UTC

Google234 wrote: post #76

LurkersWillLurk wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about whether or not they get arrested. This is about certain ground rules and principles that the government must always uphold, even against unprincipled opponents. Federal law enforcement officers, dressed in camo gear and without any identifying insignia, arresting and covering the faces of alleged rioters and stuffing them into unmarked vehicles and taking them God-knows-where is absolutely unacceptab…

I have a feel we know where the rioters are being taken after being arrested. This has been going on for more than a month.

Where do you think they’re going?

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#96

Post by chance_state » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:32 PM UTC

cwhiz wrote: post #57

“Protests.” Let’s be honest on both sides. What’s going on in Portland is violent rioting. “Demonstrators” don’t burn cars in the street, but rioters do.

Any thoughts on the secret police snatching Americans off the streets and disappearing them? Or mostly just mad about rioting?

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#97

Post by GaryNumanVevo » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:33 PM UTC

It's a perfect Kafka trap, by resisting arrest by secret police in unmarked vehicles you can be labeled as a "domestic terrorist" later, justifying the arrest post-hoc.

It's especially concerning they have no ID or agency badges, as right wing extremists have been using the protests to dress up like soldiers.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#98

Post by beervirus » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:33 PM UTC

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #91

itsoktocry wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where are the "second amendments against tyranny folks"? Not supporting the people who blame them for violence and want to take their guns away. Does that surprise you? Perhaps there is a lesson here somewhere.

What makes you think these protesters blame all gun owners and want to take their guns away? That seems like quite the reach and an over-generalization.

Yeah, it’s probably only 95% accurate.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#99

Post by itchyjunk » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:33 PM UTC

DHS is like that youngest kid that gets to do a lot more and get away with. Assume that what happened is legal and this type of `snatch and go` is a valid way to detain someone. Does it make it right? It doesn't sound like they were grabbing someone who had an arrest warrant against them. The state seem to not know that these detention were being made. Hard to know who is making the arrest. Hard to know what was being done during detention. Was their phone copied? Is that okay? Maybe more than just the local police have a bit too much power than they need.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#100

Post by ZoomerCretin » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:33 PM UTC

crocodiletears wrote: post #67

jorblumesea wrote: post #9

Ironically, giving ideological ammo to the protestors that the system is rotten to the core and needs to be completely replaced. Unmarked rented vehicles kidnapping protestors that lead to interrogations in a secret offsite location sounds a lot like the Stasi or Nazi germany. No one should be ok with this, ever. Where are the "second amendments against tyranny folks"? Oh, they probably support the police. Nice to se…

[flagged]

> a town that gave stand-down orders to its police force so that the local antifa chapter could enact political violence on its opponents

Do you have a source for any of this? It seems really far-fetched.