Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence • Hacker News Board

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#51

Post by throwaway_USD » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

gguevaraa wrote: post #4

Any lawyers or people familiar with law want to chime in on how this will turn out?

The States should prevail, because under the Constitution the Federal Government does not have police powers and under the 10th Amendment police powers are reserved for the states.

Now the limit on the Federal government police powers has eroded slowly (like all limitations on the federal governments power under the constitution), so you could point to the FBI, secret service, ICE/CBP...but if the Federal Government prevails it would be a giant leap in erosion of State rights and limitations on Federal powers. Basically it would be negating the 10th Amendment and authorizing the Federal Government to establish their own police and unilaterally deploy them nationwide.

In short the States should prevail based on police power and 10th amendment arguments, but I wouldn't foreclose this being the spark the Federal Government is looking for to gain the police powers they have always wanted. If the Federal Government prevails over the States here, you can anticipate a "commerce clause" argument where the Federal Government will use mental gymnastics to claim State failures to police their States effect interstate commerce, so the Federal Government must have the right to step in with their own police powers and regulate.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#52

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #32

mindslight wrote: post #15

We're at the point where the larger Republican establishment either needs to repudiate and remove this anti-American wannabe dictator, or they're going to find themselves at the guillotine alongside him. Our society cannot take another 6 months of economic destruction, brazen totalitarianism, and weaponized ignorance.

> or they're going to find themselves at the guillotine alongside him Be careful what you wish for, because the tech overlords and their enablers aren't very far down the list after the politicians.

[deleted]

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#53

Post by jtgi8jgfdg » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

staycoolboy wrote: post #43

sircastor wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife chided me saying "can we not go to Nazis right away?", so I corrected to the Stasi, or the KGB. I'm appalled. I live in a suburb of Portland. The worst that can be said about what's going on here is there's a lot of graffiti. I don't know how anyone can claim that The US retains some special status of freedom now.

And a garbage can was set on fire. And one or two windows smashed. But to hear it from Fox news, they think its the LA riots from '92.

Watch videos on Andy Ngo's Twitter feed. The Portland protesters are engaged in much more violent activities than setting a garbage can on fire.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#54

Post by shostack » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:09 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #27

xenadu02 wrote: post #22

Secret police snatching people off the street in unmarked vehicles is 100% police state / gestapo behavior. No one should be OK with it.

> No one should be OK with it. Agreed. And no one should be okay with the police standing down while rioters smash public buildings, vandalize and desecrate public spaces and burglarize innocent local businesses. What is the fair middle ground, and how do we get there?

Please check your language with regards to protesters vs rioters.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#55

Post by shostack » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:10 PM UTC

nickysielicki wrote: post #40

If you’re looking to hear the other (pro-police) side of the story, I’d recommend checking out this video by YouTuber “Donut Operator”. He’s a former LEO and he makes pretty fair videos doing breakdowns of officer involved shootings and whether they were justifiable or not. He did some commentary on videos coming out of Portland. https://youtu.be/5EgMijMhS_U

What criteria are you using to determine his videos are "pretty fair?"

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#56

Post by staycoolboy » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:11 PM UTC

jtgi8jgfdg wrote: post #53

staycoolboy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a garbage can was set on fire. And one or two windows smashed. But to hear it from Fox news, they think its the LA riots from '92.

Watch videos on Andy Ngo's Twitter feed. The Portland protesters are engaged in much more violent activities than setting a garbage can on fire.

[flagged]

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#57

Post by cwhiz » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:11 PM UTC

“Protests.” Let’s be honest on both sides. What’s going on in Portland is violent rioting. “Demonstrators” don’t burn cars in the street, but rioters do.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#58

Post by aerovistae » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:11 PM UTC

nickysielicki wrote: post #40

If you’re looking to hear the other (pro-police) side of the story, I’d recommend checking out this video by YouTuber “Donut Operator”. He’s a former LEO and he makes pretty fair videos doing breakdowns of officer involved shootings and whether they were justifiable or not. He did some commentary on videos coming out of Portland. https://youtu.be/5EgMijMhS_U

There is no "other side" for unidentified officers in unmarked cars with no accountability. There's no justifying that. This problem could be dealt with by forces who identify themselves and can be held responsible for violations.

Do you have some videos explaining the "other side" for the SS too?

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#59

Post by mfer » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:12 PM UTC

I'm left with a lot of questions like...

When someone is arrested there are certain legal requirements, like the miranda warning, that must be done. Are those all being followed?

People need to be charged in the proper jurisdiction for the proper laws. Is that happening?

A person can only be held in custody for a limited period of time without charges being filed. Is this being followed?

Are the details documented anywhere?

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#60

Post by itsoktocry » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:13 PM UTC

balr0g wrote: post #48

itsoktocry wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one should be OK with it. Agreed. And no one should be okay with the police standing down while rioters smash public buildings, vandalize and desecrate public spaces and burglarize innocent local businesses. What is the fair middle ground, and how do we get there?

I’d suggest the fair middle ground is to loosen state power by defunding police departments and reinvesting in communities. I keep seeing this sentiment voiced, but from a ground level looking up it comes off as closeminded because it implies that “riots” and “protesting” are different things. The reality is no one in portland tried to burn down the justice center, if they did they would be shot on sight. Whats happe…

>That’s a noble endeavor, no matter the means. America’s founded on white supremacy, and America’s maintained white supremacy.

That's fair. But understand that not everyone agrees with this, and will be willing to do what it takes to defend their way of life. What does the end-game look like?