New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads • Hacker News Board

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#261

Post by brendoelfrendo » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

Skunkleton wrote: post #249

grugagag wrote: post #243

Neither Internet or TV advertising ever worked for me in the US. As a matter of fact I always tended to avoid whatever was advertised to me or whoever targeted me since I know I will end up paying for that myself when I buy their product and I'd rather not. So as a customer I think they should offer me free ads blocking since seeing the ads would make me avoid those products. If we want to see this industry change we…

> Neither Internet or TV advertising ever worked for me in the US. This is a common idea that people hold, but I am pretty suspicious of it. First, at the macro scale, we know that ads are effective. If they weren't, it wouldn't be such a huge industry. Second, I think many people misunderstand what ads are doing. They aren't changing your mind usually, instead they are reminding and reinforcing something you already…

It's also fairly well understood that familiarity plays a role in brand choice. So, you may not care very much about what brand of toothpaste you buy (as an example), but if you're bombarded with advertisements for Crest, you're more likely to pick Crest. The advertisement isn't really meant to get you to go out and buy Crest RIGHT NOW, or even to get you excited about the next time you buy Crest. It's just there to make sure that next time you need toothpaste and are staring at a wall of functionally identical brands, Crest is the first one that jumps into your mind.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#262

Post by yazaddaruvala » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 6:06 PM UTC

GekkePrutser wrote: post #157

pantaloony wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much like Flash, not allowing third-party browsers could be explained as a cynical control mechanism on Apple’s part... or as their not wanting to see tech support volume shoot up as Chrome and Firefox users complain their battery life is terrible. Or some combination of the two.

I understand their have their reasons.. But I don't like them taking that choice away from me. The problem is, right now we have only 2 choices. Living in the open world but getting all our information sucked dry by advertisers. Or live in Apple's protected little garden but not be allowed to leave it. And pay much more for hardware specs. Neither are very appealing.

I've said it before and I'll say it every time.

> But I don't like them taking that choice away from me. ... Or live in Apple's protected little garden but not be allowed to leave it. And pay much more for hardware specs.

I pay Apple a premium to make these decisions for me. They make my life easy to live.

In this particular case, I'm aligned with their simplification, until their browser is the majority player. That's when it would be worth my effort to make an educated choice.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#263

Post by cptskippy » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 6:12 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #250

eyesee wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think contextual targeting is more than sufficient, and in fact is the only kind of advertisement that I would gauge is effective for my personal use. If I'm searching for a waffle iron, a restaurant to visit or a new car I expect to see relevant ads because that's exactly what I'm searching for. There's no need to violate my privacy by extrapolating my interests based on my site history. In fact this is what leads…

If you are searching for a restaurant, what makes up the context? Is it just the query or are you okay with Google using what it knows about you to show you restaurants in your area?

I think the argument being made is that, even when they know everything about you, they still can't target you properly.

An example, I visit Amazon and my recommendations for the "buy it again" section are all very expensive networking equipment that I literally just ordered from Amazon to build out a new home network. There aren't any recommendations for consumables, like the box of exam gloves, hair gel, or the windshield wiper fluid tablets that I purchased in the last 6 months.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#264

Post by oh_sigh » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

I would vote for customized ads, but customized based on the content I'm viewing, not customized based on what they think I want or like.

If I'm reading an article about astronomy, give me a link to telescopes to buy. Don't show me the washer/dryer that I've been looking for in another context in my life.

I would even take content-customized ads with slight tweaks based on my personal profile, but still relevant to the content at hand. For example, if I'm in eastern Nebraska, give me the telescope ad from the example above. But if I'm in Philadelphia, maybe show me a link to the observatory at the Franklin Institute.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#265

Post by Shank » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 6:20 PM UTC

m12k wrote: post #162

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

If personalized ads meant ads that were actually good recommendations for products I could be interested in and would be grateful to be informed about the existence of - maybe. The reality of it is that personalized ads are mostly just ads from those with the money and demographics info to stalk me around the internet - e.g. webshops running after me, believing that I abandoned my shopping cart simply because I got d…

The products that I care about actually do offer personalized ads without tracking: think podcasts (not from major networks, but podcasts like ATP or Relay FM), blogs (like Daring fireball), and YouTubers in an area of interest I have (MKBHD, Linus Tech Tips). I don't even mind sponsored content from these people because more often than not, the products are sensible, tailored to my interests, and actually appealing. Yet zero optimization or learning went into it outside of understanding what the source material is and marketing against that.

Obviously you have a bigger problem when it comes to larger sites like NY Times, but why not just let me say "hey, show me tech products because I like tech" to personalize, rather than trying to infer what I want and get it wrong? I'd be more than happy to tell every ad network ever what I actually care about, but right now all of the optimization is focused on guessing what I care about instead.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#266

Post by deeblering4 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 6:34 PM UTC

This is a big reason why I continue to use apple devices.

They seem to be one of the few large tech companies that aligns themselves with users rights to privacy.

Apple isn’t perfect. But they build very good privacy and security into their products. And they structure their UI and defaults in such a way that the average user benefits with no effort or specialized knowledge.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#267

Post by mikestew » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 6:39 PM UTC

Fernicia wrote: post #170

m12k wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If personalized ads meant ads that were actually good recommendations for products I could be interested in and would be grateful to be informed about the existence of - maybe. The reality of it is that personalized ads are mostly just ads from those with the money and demographics info to stalk me around the internet - e.g. webshops running after me, believing that I abandoned my shopping cart simply because I got d…

Criticism like this essentially boil down to the adverts not being targeted enough. Lumping you in the wrong group, not knowing enough about your intentions, etc.

It is a fair criticism, is it not? My go-to for this issue is my Kindle Paperwhite for which I did not spend the extra $20 to turn off the ads. Amazon has over ten years of my reading habits, which mainly consist of sci-fi, philosophical/religious non-fiction, and miscellaneous dregs. You know what I have never, ever read in my life? Some along the lines of the "Witches of Paragrene Point" series of books. Or the "Defending $POPULAR_90S_GIRL_NAME" series (which I take to be "manly hunk is bodyguard for a female has to rescue her at some point"). But those show up on my Kindle, at which point I assume Amazon just isn't even trying.

After about ten years or so of Kindle ownership, I recall clicking the ad and buying the book exactly once. Yup, a sci-fi book, and it was pretty damned good as I recall. The title, you ask? Hell if I know, Amazon never showed me another book from that author ever again. And I wish they would, because I can't remember which one in my "stacks" of sci-fi is the one I want.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#268

Post by ardy42 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 6:46 PM UTC

artificial wrote: post #193

fsflover wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personalized ads is a way to trick you into buying something which you had not necessarily planned to buy, i.e. psychological manipulation. The more they know about you, the better they can manipulate you into buying their product (whether you actually need it or not). I don't understand how anyone would agree on that.

I'm not fond of the current display of ads on websites and I block them mercilessly. If I'm looking for shoes, I'm shown more shoes in ads (this is my reality right now.) How is that trickery? Unless you're considering any advertisement manipulation. The part where the current model falls down is it doesn't stop (since there's no means to really show that one isn't interested) and a big ticket item like a toilet beco…

> Unless you're considering any advertisement manipulation.

Any advertisement is manipulation. Think about it: the purpose of an ad is to influence your decisions primarily for the benefit the self-interest of the party that paid for the ad (otherwise they wouldn't have paid for it). Any benefit you derive from your decision is secondary, and doesn't typically factor into the decision to take out the ad. That's pretty clearly manipulation.

However, there are definitely differences in how manipulative an ad can be. An ad for a plumber in the yellow pages is not very manipulative, but a targeted political ad meant to make you angry that's been interjected into your Facebook feed is very manipulative.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#269

Post by Waterfall » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 6:49 PM UTC

ogre_codes wrote: post #187

selykg wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm far from representative of all users, but I can't be bothered to use Google Maps anymore. The various integrations that Apple Maps has with Apple Watch and all the improvements it has received over the years makes it just as good if not better than Google Maps for a vast majority of my usage.

You've likely given this far more thought than most people. The majority of people just use what's installed by default and don't ever even look at Google. Defaults are powerful. This is doubly true now that Apple Maps is as good as it's gotten.

Won't use it after it sent my friend to a wrong location and won't use it after it gave me bad coordinates. New iOS will let you change defaults don't remember if it has maps to swap.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#270

Post by Waterfall » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 6:50 PM UTC

nerdjon wrote: post #136

omnifischer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the end of the day, 1. Apple users are the ones that cannot browse without adblocker. Safari is not as good as ublock-origin 2. Most Apple users use google maps. > Not a fan of Apple, but they seem to be serious about privacy If they are honest then they can remove the default search engine from Google to DDG or whatever. They get billions from Google for default search engine. https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/1/21…

In regards to maps... I would like to actually see number on that. I personally use Apple Maps almost exclusively and don't look back. It does everything I need. Apple Maps had a very shaky start, but its just fine compared to google maps (with the added benefit of not being a privacy nightmare)

Sent my friend to a wrong location as recently as a year ago. Won't chance that again. This is in Chicago not corn field in middle of nowhere.