New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads • Hacker News Board

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#241

Post by m12k » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 5:14 PM UTC

chrisjarvis wrote: post #234

m12k wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If personalized ads meant ads that were actually good recommendations for products I could be interested in and would be grateful to be informed about the existence of - maybe. The reality of it is that personalized ads are mostly just ads from those with the money and demographics info to stalk me around the internet - e.g. webshops running after me, believing that I abandoned my shopping cart simply because I got d…

So in a world where targeted ads are actually useful you would probably opt-in? Would you ever try something like this? You'd take a survey about your interests and/or things you're in the market for then you would get a monthly email with a variety of targeted ads. Over a year ago I wrote down in my "ideas" notebook "privacy respecting opt-in email advertisements" but then when I looked at it again later on I though…

One of the problems with ads is that they try to jump in front of me while I'm going about my business trying to do something else - it's the wrong time for a product recommendation in any case. I'm happy to go on sites like thewirecutter or cleverhiker when I want specific product recommendations for something. But that only works for products and product types that I already know about. If I could have an inbox of products that were likely to interest me, which I could check or ignore at my leisure (sorta like Spotify's Discover Weekly) - yes, I might just check that out, and even keep coming back if it kept giving good recommendations.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#242

Post by ardy42 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 5:14 PM UTC

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

> I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized?

No. If I have to be surrounded by messages trying to manipulate me (which is what ads are, by the way), then I don't want them to be personalized for extra effectiveness (at manipulating me).

I don't really understand how some people seem to treat ads as some kind of neutral, helpful information source. It's almost like saying "I don't mind propaganda, since it's such an efficient way to find out what to think."

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#243

Post by grugagag » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 5:17 PM UTC

Neither Internet or TV advertising ever worked for me in the US. As a matter of fact I always tended to avoid whatever was advertised to me or whoever targeted me since I know I will end up paying for that myself when I buy their product and I'd rather not.

So as a customer I think they should offer me free ads blocking since seeing the ads would make me avoid those products. If we want to see this industry change we should all make clear it rarely works and it's an absolute waste of money.

What worked were ads that were creative back in the day before they all became canned into the same thing, same voices, etc. Back in Europe the advertising USED TO BE a lot more fun, I'd genuinely enjoy watch some commercials on TV, to the point of watching an hour compilation of said best ads.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#244

Post by petters » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

Definitely personalized. I stopped using FB a couple of years ago, but when I did, its ads were amazingly good (I almost miss them sometimes).

FB would show me an ad for the perfect obscure Kickstarter project that I was happy to back. Win-win.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#245

Post by izacus » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

dividedbyzero wrote: post #145

izacus wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telephony is dead. These days in many places cannot get a job or function without access to email or chat. In a lot of non-rich markets the smartphone is the cheapest option to gain access to these communication systems. We're not in 1998 anymore where people phone you.

> In a lot of non-rich markets the smartphone is the cheapest option to gain access to these communication systems. I'd say that's nowadays true for richer parts of the world as well.

Yeah - although at least according to analytics a lot of western world people also own a computer. In many asian/african areas most of the population only has a smartphone to access the internet.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#246

Post by ubercow13 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

mostlysimilar wrote: post #223

ubercow13 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If targeted ads are no better, and maybe even worse, than untargeted ads, that doesn't imply you need more targeting. Maybe it implies targeting doesn't work (at least for the purpose of providing ads the user wants to see). I prefer contextual ads, ie. related to what I'm currently looking at, not what my ad profile thinks my personality is based on something unrelated I did on another device last week.

> I prefer contextual ads, ie. related to what I'm currently looking at, not what my ad profile thinks my personality is based on something unrelated I did on another device last week. That would be my preference for browsing the web, or looking at results of a search. But what about the ads that rely on doom-scrolling? The ones that are inserted every two posts on a Facebook feed would be hard to make contextual, fo…

I don't mind some Instagram ads which are directly related to accounts I follow. For example, follow some musicians on Instagram and get an advert for some other artist's new album. I don't use Facebook but I guess it could work similarly if you follow certain interest-related groups. However, I wouldn't like if it was using my interactions with friends to target me.

Both of these are better that tracking your activity all over the web and using that to target you.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#247

Post by stmL » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #217

>But being the most popular mobile ecosystem I keep seeing quote similar to this about Apple's iOS being so popular, yet the numbers clearly show that Android devices/users out number iOS. Are they saying that even with those numbers, Android is unpopular and people would rather be an iOS user? Is the price point whats preventing them?

I believe so. In my country, having an iPhone was a sign of higher income. An average Android phone with a known brand is about 1K local currency, iPhone SE is around 5K and iPhone 11 Pro is around 11K. Average junior developer earns around 5K monthly. Nowadays, even people that can't afford proper food buy them second hand or with installments.

I, as an Android user, keep reading stories about how iPhone respects privacy and how it is more stable etc. Even though there is no add-on support for Firefox on iOS (for uBlock origin) and I know I won't be able to develop any app for my own iPhone (MacBooks are even more expensive around 20K) I still want to buy an iPhone to get rid of Google and its compulsory apps. I know if I care enough about my privacy I can get LineageOS or something, I just want something that works and not owned by Google.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#248

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

rasz wrote: post #103

wayneftw wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly anybody outside of the tech bubble saw those videos. What happened there is a brigade of haters came along and down voted them. Probably a lot of Mozilla/Google supporters. There are plenty of Microsoft videos with mostly upvotes. Try a video about the Xbox.

This was a TV/print ad campaign with >$10mil budget, not some random YT videos.

[deleted]

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#249

Post by Skunkleton » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 5:30 PM UTC

grugagag wrote: post #243

Neither Internet or TV advertising ever worked for me in the US. As a matter of fact I always tended to avoid whatever was advertised to me or whoever targeted me since I know I will end up paying for that myself when I buy their product and I'd rather not. So as a customer I think they should offer me free ads blocking since seeing the ads would make me avoid those products. If we want to see this industry change we…

> Neither Internet or TV advertising ever worked for me in the US.

This is a common idea that people hold, but I am pretty suspicious of it. First, at the macro scale, we know that ads are effective. If they weren't, it wouldn't be such a huge industry. Second, I think many people misunderstand what ads are doing. They aren't changing your mind usually, instead they are reminding and reinforcing something you already know. For example, my next phone will most certainly be an iPhone, but can an ad make me excited enough about it to mention that to a friend? Or buy a new phone sooner? Probably.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#250

Post by criddell » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 5:31 PM UTC

eyesee wrote: post #159

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

I think contextual targeting is more than sufficient, and in fact is the only kind of advertisement that I would gauge is effective for my personal use. If I'm searching for a waffle iron, a restaurant to visit or a new car I expect to see relevant ads because that's exactly what I'm searching for. There's no need to violate my privacy by extrapolating my interests based on my site history. In fact this is what leads…

If you are searching for a restaurant, what makes up the context? Is it just the query or are you okay with Google using what it knows about you to show you restaurants in your area?