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New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

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Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#201

Post by jfb »

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

Why on Earth should the Pareto optimality of the advertising business matter to anyone not in the advertising business? That is an extremely alien concern to me.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#202

Post by xenonite »

whoopdedo wrote: post #199
kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

> Why can't there be a way for me to tell the ad-world what I'm in the market for Because there's no money in that. What's the value in selling you something that you've already decided you want to buy? Advertisers are trying to get into your head and manipulate your perception to make you open your wallet where you otherwise wouldn't have. And when you do decide to purchase a product, that it's the advertiser's bran…

I think the OP meant general "market", not the "concrete product X". Hence the decision has not yet been made.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#203

Post by m12k »

Fernicia wrote: post #170
m12k wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If personalized ads meant ads that were actually good recommendations for products I could be interested in and would be grateful to be informed about the existence of - maybe. The reality of it is that personalized ads are mostly just ads from those with the money and demographics info to stalk me around the internet - e.g. webshops running after me, believing that I abandoned my shopping cart simply because I got d…

Criticism like this essentially boil down to the adverts not being targeted enough. Lumping you in the wrong group, not knowing enough about your intentions, etc.

No, I'd say it boils down to ads being a bad way to discover products you are interested in. I love sites like thewirecutter or similar for getting actual recommendations, when I want to seek something out. Randomly getting products recommended in a drive-by fashion as I surf around the internet doesn't work, but even if it did work, it's neither the format nor timing in which I'd ever want to receive these recommendations anyway.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#204

Post by ubercow13 »

Fernicia wrote: post #170
m12k wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If personalized ads meant ads that were actually good recommendations for products I could be interested in and would be grateful to be informed about the existence of - maybe. The reality of it is that personalized ads are mostly just ads from those with the money and demographics info to stalk me around the internet - e.g. webshops running after me, believing that I abandoned my shopping cart simply because I got d…

Criticism like this essentially boil down to the adverts not being targeted enough. Lumping you in the wrong group, not knowing enough about your intentions, etc.

If targeted ads are no better, and maybe even worse, than untargeted ads, that doesn't imply you need more targeting. Maybe it implies targeting doesn't work (at least for the purpose of providing ads the user wants to see).

I prefer contextual ads, ie. related to what I'm currently looking at, not what my ad profile thinks my personality is based on something unrelated I did on another device last week.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#205

Post by sveme »

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

Most ads are related to previous searches or visits on the web. I once searched for a new car mirror - now I get car parts ads everywhere. Wouldn‘t it be smarter to have context-dependent ads? If I‘m reading a blog on hexagonal architecture, wouldn‘t I be interested in books on that and related topics? Those kinds of ads would not necessitate tracking.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#206

Post by frickinLasers »

intopieces wrote: post #185
sleepinseattle wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Ads should be related to the content, not personalized to the person viewing the content.

While I agree in principle, I don't think this is manageable given how diverse the content is on the Internet. What sort of thing are you going to sell me when I'm reading a news article about wars in the Middle East?

A subscription to Foreign Affairs Magazine

A device on which to read articles about wars in the middle east

An donation to Red Cross/Doctors without Borders/relevant charity

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#207

Post by reaperducer »

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy

In my experience, it's the opposite. Non-personalized ads show me a broad range of items that I might possibly be interested in. The same way that newspaper, television, and magazine ads do. While personalized ads show me the same ads for the same products that I've either already purchased, or no am no longer interested in for weeks or months after I've moved on to other things.

frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world

I find this argument... odd. Why, as a consumer, which is how you've framed the overall argument, would I care even a little about the efficiency use of money in this world? I think to refine your point: Why would I give fark one about whether an advertiser's money is spent efficiently, and why is that even my concern at all?

Why can't there be a way for me to tell the ad-world what I'm in the market for

There is. For example, if you're into gardening, you read gardening magazines and garden-related advertisers advertise in those magazines. Easy peasy.

This is old tech that the dead tree folks figured out centuries ago. What's changed is that digital advertising isn't about actual advertising. It's about getting rich quick and easy without doing any heavy lifting that the legacy ad companies did.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#208

Post by backtoyoujim »

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

" if ads were needed for monetization,"

It is a solution to monetization. It is not the only solution. Lack of economic development has been because of the addictive nature of fascist behavior.

Non-personalized vs personalized is not the question for me; companies might still collect the same data from my "experience" habits.

If they are going to do that I want more profit from it than a custom news page.

Like I want money from the company leveraging my identity for the company's bottom line. I want some of that money if you are going to get a simulacra of me in a fucking database.

And until we get there we are stuck with a few rich lawless men keeping me for themselves.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#209

Post by jariel »

tremon wrote: post #26
jariel wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These conversations are always so one-sided on HN. Not only is 're-targeting' immensely useful, it absolutely increases conversions. Targeting in general helps quite a lot. Ad targeting is the opposite of evil, it actually increases relevance by a significant degree, and increases market efficiency, wherein surpluses go to both sides. There's a huge market for products and services out there and it's getting harder t…

it's getting harder to connect individuals and products on the long tail. Hogwash. Do you know what the "long tail" refers to? It refers to the whole network of independent retailers that extend the reach of a manufacturer. That connection is organic, if your products are any good. The only reason companies are struggling with their long tail is because they want to have it all: they want ultimate control over their…

This is false, bordering on anti-rationality.

Small and mid-sized companies 'make stuff or services' and want to get the message out to those who may be interested.

"The connection is organic" this is fantasy. It would take a decade for a small maker to make inroads in a long tail market to get national reach.

"they want ultimate control over their long tail instead of delegating it to the market,"

This statement is nonsensical.

Being able to advertise is part of 'the market system'. They want to get the word out.

Ironically - the 'market system' reaches considerably more efficiency with better, more targeted ads.

I'm tired of lack of understanding of how the 'selling side' works in any business here on HN, and doubly tired of the antagonism towards it.

People take an interest in very complicated algorithms which may not see the light of day, but then can't wrap their heads around these really obviously, daily common problems.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#210

Post by yannikyeo »

chadlavi wrote: post #188
nerdjon wrote: post #143

This is the number one feature on iOS 14 that I cannot wait for. I am getting very tired of finding out that unrelated services know that I have used a specific app (like Facebook knows way too much). Somewhat related (even though this is focused on Apps). I have noticed an uptick in websites that don't support safari, likely due to how they handle cookies. I hope this does not become super common (but I can't imagin…

I'm on the dev beta, and it's pretty stable. There's a public beta available now. If you're itching to try it out, I'd recommend it!

Beta 3 is less stable than beta 2 for some. I normally wait till beta 5 or 6 before installing on real device.
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