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Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

latimes.com

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Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#71

Post by 0xy »

newacct583 wrote: post #60
microcolonel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did not read the complete details of the case (or frankly, even read the comment you're replying to). The dose was large enough to give him gynecomastia, which the other inmates bullied him for, and for which he will require surgery. His father reports that his son's personality is completely different, he is now a total shut-in. > He got an inappropriate drug He was injected† with non-indicated (as in, there is…

> He was injected with non-indicated contradictory sex hormones during adolescence and under duress; I don't know why you're downplaying this I'm not downplaying this at all. It's you who are boosting your interpretation because of "assault on the testicles", "mental destruction", "sex hormone", and other things that tell me what you're really upset about is his masculinity and not his well being. No, I don't think t…

Are you actually suggesting him losing his masculinity by forced medication of an unnecessary drug is not in itself an issue? What's the problem with masculinity, exactly, and why is it so bad that drugs should be given to children to remove it?

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#72

Post by microcolonel »

newacct583 wrote: post #60
microcolonel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did not read the complete details of the case (or frankly, even read the comment you're replying to). The dose was large enough to give him gynecomastia, which the other inmates bullied him for, and for which he will require surgery. His father reports that his son's personality is completely different, he is now a total shut-in. > He got an inappropriate drug He was injected† with non-indicated (as in, there is…

> He was injected with non-indicated contradictory sex hormones during adolescence and under duress; I don't know why you're downplaying this I'm not downplaying this at all. It's you who are boosting your interpretation because of "assault on the testicles", "mental destruction", "sex hormone", and other things that tell me what you're really upset about is his masculinity and not his well being. No, I don't think t…

> It's you who are boosting your interpretation because of "assault on the testicles", "mental destruction", "sex hormone", and other things that tell me

The "assault on testicles" thing was not even part of my description of the boy's condition, it was part of my hypothetical of a crime with potentially equivalent (or probably less severe) outcomes. And for your information, sex hormones are a basic and widely-accepted concept; just because some people are afraid to call them that in the English-language publications of some corrupt institutions in the last five to ten years doesn't mean they went away. Go ahead and tell any trans person on HRT that sex hormones aren't a thing; if they believe you, they'll be horrified, if they know how wrong you are, they may be too flabbergasted to even begin to tell you.

> ...what you're really upset about is his masculinity and not his well being.

I think that you ought to do some introspection as to why you consider those things not to be related. I suspect you are concerned about some people's security in their gender identity, but you seem to want desperately to paint it as a minor thing that they seem to have treated this boy's gender identity (and sexual function) as a disposable lab material; maybe you personally place no value on masculinity, but that's not for you to decide on this boy's behalf.

> ...an equivalently dangerous drug (say, fentanyl for sedation, which has also been alleged in juvenile detention facilities IIRC)

fentanyl is generally safe, the safest opioid AFAIK, and its effects wear off in seconds or minutes (which is why it is often administered through slow-release patches or lollipops).

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#73

Post by read_if_gay_ »

newacct583 wrote: post #60
microcolonel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did not read the complete details of the case (or frankly, even read the comment you're replying to). The dose was large enough to give him gynecomastia, which the other inmates bullied him for, and for which he will require surgery. His father reports that his son's personality is completely different, he is now a total shut-in. > He got an inappropriate drug He was injected† with non-indicated (as in, there is…

> He was injected with non-indicated contradictory sex hormones during adolescence and under duress; I don't know why you're downplaying this I'm not downplaying this at all. It's you who are boosting your interpretation because of "assault on the testicles", "mental destruction", "sex hormone", and other things that tell me what you're really upset about is his masculinity and not his well being. No, I don't think t…

> what you're really upset about is his masculinity and not his well being

Can you argue in more bad faith?

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#74

Post by justaguyhere »

fortran77 wrote: post #56

It's terrible how the lives of young men don't matter.

Not just young men, all men I suppose. Breast cancer receives tons of attention and money compared to testicular cancer. Men's rights movements are made fun of. Sexual assaults on men is funny while the same on women is horrifying. Casually making jokes about it in movies is okay, as long as the victim is male. etc etc.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#75

Post by hellotomyrars »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #24
lowdose wrote: post #12

A woman that uses the pill as birth control consumes 0.00365 gram of estrogen a year. At a consumption price of the pill for $300 a gram of estradiol is thus worth $82,191.79. Compare that to $44 for a gram of gold and you wonder if big Pharma is ready for disruption?

You’re not factoring in labor, packaging, pharmacy profit, pharmacist wages, insurance company profit. If you think you can do it cheaper, then go for it

When Florida is importing drugs from Canada instead of buying them domestically then its pretty self-evident that it can be done for cheaper.

Not sure if this is an earnest defense of the state of healthcare costs in the US but you'd have to be deluded if you think that the rampant profit-seeking in the US for healthcare is merely the cost of doing business.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#76

Post by read_if_gay_ »

newacct583 wrote: post #68
fortran77 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commenter is underplaying it because the commenter has an agenda.

Can you enlighten me as to what you think my agenda is? For myself, I'm pretty sure I posted that comment so people who might otherwise like to frequent HN doesn't get the idea that the median poster here is a transphobe. Obviously I might be wrong about that, but someone needs to put in the effort.

In order to not be a transphobe you have to defend this?

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#77

Post by easterncalculus »

swayvil wrote: post #46

"oppositional defiant disorder" That's what they call mouthy rebels these days

That's exactly what I was thinking. I really refuse to believe that he couldn't just be diagnosed with something else, assuming there was really a problem to begin with. This whole case is incredibly concerning. I'd wonder if this is the first time.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#78

Post by ed25519FUUU »

> “Estrogen is not a treatment for ODD. I can’t be more emphatic about that,” McGough said. “You won’t find a reference anywhere that supports the use of estrogen for ODD.”

Well certainly the doctor got this theory from someplace. They believed this young man would be better behaved if he had less testosterone and more estrogen, and went ahead with a treatment against scientific evidence (and ethics quite frankly).

So where did the doctor get this theory? Let's ask ourselves that question, and follow up with this question: what other theories are medical and science professionals getting that aren't science based?

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#79

Post by helixhelix »

newacct583 wrote: post #68
fortran77 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commenter is underplaying it because the commenter has an agenda.

Can you enlighten me as to what you think my agenda is? For myself, I'm pretty sure I posted that comment so people who might otherwise like to frequent HN doesn't get the idea that the median poster here is a transphobe. Obviously I might be wrong about that, but someone needs to put in the effort.

If you think people are either extremely transphobic or extremely transphillic, that makes you immature. Absolutism is a childish thought trait.
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