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Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

latimes.com

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Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#41

Post by microcolonel »

newacct583 wrote: post #27
microcolonel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that nobody seems to be able to account for his decision, it seems like maybe he should be in prison. If somebody assaults my testicles and renders me infertile, that is an extremely serious crime; this doctor may well have done the equivalent (along with completely destroying the boy mentally) with the stroke of a pen.

Came here ready to be horrified at the gender paranoia living under the surface of HN, was actually surprised with how reasonable everyone was. Except this comment. None of those symptoms (infertility, "complete mental destruction" or, heh, "assault on the testicles") are alleged here. He got an inappropriate drug, possibly punitively. And that's horrifying enough without painting figurative spectres of the unimagina…

You did not read the complete details of the case (or frankly, even read the comment you're replying to). The dose was large enough to give him gynecomastia, which the other inmates bullied him for, and for which he will require surgery. His father reports that his son's personality is completely different, he is now a total shut-in.

> He got an inappropriate drug

He was injected† with non-indicated (as in, there is no literature on this rogue prescription) contradictory sex hormones during adolescence and under duress; I don't know why you're downplaying this, I hope it's just because you don't know what this means.

> infertility

Infertility is a common outcome of sex hormone therapies.

> ...the unimaginable cruelty of... emasculation?

If suppressing gender dysphoric people is wrong, how can it be moral to medically intervene to deprive an adolescent of the normal functioning of his body, and an already solidified gender identity? Using non-indicated medical interventions to emasculate or defeminate somebody who is already secure is a form of extreme cruelty, from basically any moral frame, yes.

† Correction from helpful reply: not injected, taken as pills. I got the "injection" thing from this thread, had thought it was pills before.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#42

Post by CypherSnyper »

concordDance wrote: post #21

Why is this relevant to Hackernews?

Because this is a free-discussion website about technology and current issues. Human rights violations in the United States are being exposed by the momentum of the George Floyd protests, so this article fits the bill perfectly.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#43

Post by gruez »

jnosCo wrote: post #33
bluedevil2k wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not factoring in labor, packaging, pharmacy profit, pharmacist wages, insurance company profit. If you think you can do it cheaper, then go for it

Seems like at least two of those could be removed by universal healthcare.

I presume you're talking about pharmacy profit and insurance company profit. "universal healthcare" just means everyone's covered. It doesn't mean everything's owned & operated by the government. That means there can still be private insurance companies and pharmacies, both making a profit.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#44

Post by krustyburger »

concordDance wrote: post #21

Why is this relevant to Hackernews?

>>On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#45

Post by xiphias2 »

stupidcar wrote: post #14

This reads like the plot of a dystopian young adult sci-fi novel. Children who resist authority being diagnosed with a "behavioural disorder" and being forcibly given hormones by an evil doctor. Yet apparently this is the reality of modern society.

I believe it has been happening all the time, not just in modern society, we just have better information about it.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#47

Post by justAnotherNET »

The right is responsible for plenty of problems and people have no problems discussing that, yet I’ve found here and elsewhere people are uncomfortable discussing this clearly leftist phenomenon.

No one on the political or social right is pushing to inject kids as young as 8 with sterilizing hormones.

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#49

Post by samfriedman »

fwip wrote: post #17
microcolonel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that nobody seems to be able to account for his decision, it seems like maybe he should be in prison. If somebody assaults my testicles and renders me infertile, that is an extremely serious crime; this doctor may well have done the equivalent (along with completely destroying the boy mentally) with the stroke of a pen.

The good news (for this boy) is that 13 days of hormone therapy are unlikely to cause any permanent changes. Infertility/sterility is usually only expected after years of HRT - and even then, often returns if HRT is ceased.

FTA:

Ouchi said the boy, now 17, was released in April and will require surgery to treat the physical issues he developed as a result of the estrogen treatment.

...

The boy’s father said the hormone therapy has had a long-term effect on his son, who now scares easily and has become antisocial. “He’s like a different person. He just wants to be in his room, and he don’t come out for nothing, all day in his room,” the father said. “He was never like that.”

Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says

#50

Post by fwip »

0xy wrote: post #29
fwip wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good news (for this boy) is that 13 days of hormone therapy are unlikely to cause any permanent changes. Infertility/sterility is usually only expected after years of HRT - and even then, often returns if HRT is ceased.

You are correct in that such a low dose for a short period of time is unlikely to have major problems, but HRT is not a risk-free treatment. It increases risk of heart disease, stroke, blood clots and more.

In studies of post-menopausal cis women, that's correct, extended use is associated with those things. (Also, I think some of those were done with Premarin, which is no longer widely used?)

There has been unfortunately few studies done on transgender people or on young people. (I welcome any links to studies you have!)

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