Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#161

Post by sbmthakur » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 8:49 AM UTC

jeremysalwen wrote: post #89

quantummkv wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is blatant disinformation by omitting context. The CAA itself is discriminatory, since it does not apply to muslims > The CAA makes it easier for non-Muslims to claim citizenship You see, first of all it's not the Muslims that are literally fighting[1] for their[2] lives[3] and culture[4][5] from crazed zealots in countries around India. And unlike some other religions, the Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists don't ha…

Please become more educated on this issue. Muslims are not a monolithic group, and being a Muslim does not protect you from persecution in Muslim majority countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Shi'ism If the bill was meant to be secular, it could provide asylum for everyone suffering religious persecution, regardless of their religion. It clearly is designed to exclude muslims.

How will be the bill secular when it is in response to the persecution of minority religions in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan? And I don't understand this fixation with Muslims. What about the followers of Bahá'í Faith who are not covered under this bill?

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#162

Post by wozniacki » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 8:54 AM UTC

jariel wrote: post #75

pankajdoharey wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I think, the most ideal countries to expand manufacturing to are African countries, they have some of the same advantages once china had. 1. Mineral Resources. 2. Cheap Labour. 3. High Density of Lanthanide and Actinide group minerals. China also has a fourth advantage which is a good mix of Production, Manufacturing and Electronics Engineers. Which Africa doesn't have. On the other hand India doesn't have t…

Those are not in the 'top 10' things required to support an electronics manufacturing base. Africa is the last place any electronics are going to be made, and it's completely unsuitable to their situation, at least currently. Manufacturing any kind of electronics any scale requires a fair bit of sophistication. There is a lot of know how in putting together lines, knowing what to optimise, managing supply chains. I j…

  The Chinese invest in African (sic) for minerals etc. 
  they bring in their own workers (why do they do this if 
  African wages are lower?).

This.

There's a most excellent documentary on the inroads the Chinese have industrially made in Africa called Empire of Dust (2011)[1] thats eminently watchable.[2][3][4]

Even going back a decade and more, the Chinese not only brought their own machinery, trucks, heavy and light equipment of all kinds down to nuts and bolts but also their own manpower for everything but the most menial of tasks for which they employed the local populace. This shows how unreliable or qualifiedly unworthy the Chinese deemed the skilled population in their host countries & how inefficient local governments were in furnishing them with basic skills.

[1]

Empire of Dust (2011)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2148945/

[2]

EMPIRE OF DUST - TRAILER

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkEqI3_J4xg

[3]

Empire of Dust China in Africa Mirror

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LSuZGlqL34

[4]

It's all so....tiresome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9LaHualx-s

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#163

Post by finebalance » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 8:54 AM UTC

throay423432 wrote: post #60

cko wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an ethnic Chinese, I have to question that. Is this based on your observations of first and second generation Chinese immigrants in the West? In which case, wouldn't there be selection bias involved?

These sentiments are based on a 'scientific' world average IQ score; India is at 82 while China is at 105. I think most popularly, these were used by the White supremacist, Stephen Molyneux to justify the colonization of both India and Africa; it shouldn't be surprising to see it used in other dick-measurement... ahem 'eugenics' contests.

I'm Indian, and I think there's a strong case to be made that the Indian avg IQ is likely to be lower than 100. This is nurture though, not nature: a large % of Indians do not get sufficient micronutriants during childhood, and are anemic (40%~) [1], stunted (40%) [2], and much else besides.

[1] https://www.hospitalmanagement.net/comment/anemia-prevalence...

[2] https://www.indiaspend.com/38-of-indian-children-under-4-poo...

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#164

Post by pankajdoharey » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 8:57 AM UTC

lvbu wrote: post #133

pankajdoharey wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link suggests that the democratic institutions are weak and works on the whims of politicians which is what the original comment suggested. Th notorious ganster has been seen with the very same politicians. Let me give you few more examples : 1. Just recently Indian government created an entity called 'PM Care Fund' for the collection of funds during corona pandemic but created explicit laws that people cannot fi…

1. Which democracy in the world do-not have corruption? 2. Where in the article is the mention about government intervention in Judiciary? I read it, but could not find it. > Free and fare Judiciary and democratic institutions are fundamental to a democracy. I hope this substantiates the original comment. Your original comment was that India's democracy is close to Putin's Russia. I agree that India being a young dem…

Corruption is a common denominator whether it is a democracy or autocracy. In Democracies citizens have the ability to practice democratic rights. A fundamental right in democracy is the freedom of speech.

In India though people who protest against government policies are sent behind bars without any due process. For instance in the past yr many social activists have been sent to Jail for protesting against the CAA bill, a bill which seeks to give citizenship to people based on their religion. The activists who protested have been jailed for protesting. For instance

Safoora Zargar, https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53149967 was a student who participated in the protest and was alleged of rioting and put behind bars without due process.

OR Chandrashekhar Azad Ravan https://www.thequint.com/news/india/bhim-army-chandrashekhar...

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#165

Post by pankajdoharey » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 9:02 AM UTC

kburman wrote: post #129

pankajdoharey wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not saying this, 4 Supreme Court judges have said this. RTI has been diluted so you dont get a reply to the anything. Democracy is more than elections.

Source?

I am sorry, i forgot to post the source earlier : https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/supreme-court-cris...

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#166

Post by sbmthakur » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 9:02 AM UTC

P6Rs4r wrote: post #126

quantummkv wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the bill was meant to be secular, it could provide asylum for everyone suffering religious persecution, regardless of their religion. It clearly is designed to exclude muslims. Here is the document in it's entirety - http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2019/214646.pdf . Please point out the relevant sections of the document where it is stated that Muslims will not be allowed to apply for asylum or that Muslims…

If the accelerated asylum process does not apply to Muslims (including Rohingyas and Ahmadiyas), why is that not discriminatory? Why is the plight of a Buddhist in Pakistan more urgent than that of a Rohingya in Myanmar?

Unlike Pakistan, India recognizes Ahmadiyas as Muslims[1][2]. From India's perspective, they are followers of Islam. CAA doesn't address sectarian conflicts. It only addresses religious persecution. It can be argued that it should address sectarian issues, but by that reasoning, it should also address persecution based on sexual-orientation, color, gender, etc.

As for Rohingyas, this comment explains it in a better way:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23800181

I would also like to add that Rohingyas are known for some serious violence[3]. I don't think the same can be said for a Buddhist from Pakistan.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Ahmadis#Ordinan...

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Ahmadis#India

3. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/05/myanmar-new-e...

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#167

Post by h0l0cube » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 9:13 AM UTC

em500 wrote: post #150

h0l0cube wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, given the dips corresponding to tech crash and financial crisis, it could be more an effect of underemployment, rather than more leisure time, or less overwork. Given the relatively weak social welfare policy in the US (amongst developed nations), that would match with the narrative of social unrest in lower income brackets in recent years.

Try to avoid fitting the data to your narrative. more hours worked = slavery less hours worked = underemployment Are there any measures at all that would convince you that the overall the world is better than it used to be?

> Try to avoid fitting the data to your narrative.

I made a post above that addresses your plaint I believe. I'm not being disingenuous here, I'm trying to make sense of the data. Obviously hours worked (on average), is not separable from employment figures.

> Are there any measures at all that would convince you that the overall the world is better than it used to be?

I think it's troublesome to look at economic indicators alone and make a hedonic judgement. Because when someone says, 'The world is better', I immediately think they are saying, people are 'happier'. Globalisation and technological advancement have increased the world population, as well as per-capita quality of life, and GDP. So perhaps in that 'positive-utilitarian' sense, the world is better in aggregate.

However, let's take the Chinese. They have bided their time, and now have a quality of life far exceeding their forebears. However, they can now ask for higher wages, and the value of the currency has increased, and they were losing the lower-end of the manufacturing market.. so the government found a population they could put to work for nothing - I'm sure you know what I'm talking about here.

Currently I don't see incentives for these low substinence-wage jobs going away, so I don't see how data about per-capita improvements make the reality of sweat-shops disappear. If I could see global policy shifting towards the direction of human rights, and meaningful enforcement of those human rights, that would convince me the world hasn't just reached a plateau, but can actually uplift the very bottom rung of the population.

EDIT: If there was one measure that would convince me, it would be a trend in reduction in forced-labour and sustenance-wage labour. But I couldn't find data that captures this quantity changing over time, as it's not something that could be easily surveyed, or would likely be under-reported.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#168

Post by jokestir » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 9:18 AM UTC

We just don't have the infrastructure for this.

Too much red tape. I will believe it when I see it.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#169

Post by MrsPeaches » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 9:35 AM UTC

tixocloud wrote: post #154

MrsPeaches wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the ideal situation in my view would be to setup manufacturing hub in African countries. Hire Chinese/Indian/American/Russian manufacturing Engineers and the rich mineral resources in African countries. Wow, neocolonialism much? This sort of extractive thinking is exactly the reason that countries in Africa remain some of the poorest in the world. Which companies do you think will be bringing in these foreign wo…

There is opportunity to be somewhere in the middle ground that can help lift the wealth of a 3rd world country. In the case of Malaysia, the country focused heavily on manufacturing for foreign entities but was structured as joint ventures with the goal to retain knowledge within the country. Many industrialised nations saw this as “protectionism” as capital flowing in without flow out as easily and you are bounded b…

Thanks, that sounds like an interesting example. Do you have any links to where I can read more about the policies? When was this?

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#170

Post by ben_w » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 9:43 AM UTC

cko wrote: post #147

distances wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may want to be aware that in western groups any talk about national or racial intelligence is usually considered pure racism. I assume it's not like that in India; I've also had a short discussion about this earlier with an Indian colleague when the topic of intelligence somehow came up.

If there is some sort of ethnic basis for differences in intelligence (independent of environmental factors such as poverty, culture, etc.) what would be the practical implications of this data? It seems to me that in the future, economic value will be correlated with the ability to work with increasingly abstract things (which I assume IQ is trying to measure). Wouldn't the natural tendency to value human worth base…

That’s assuming future values are current values.

If we keep improving AI at current rates, two things can happen at the same time:

1. The cost of running a full-brain simulation puts an upper limit on someone’s IQ-based pay — cost of power vs salary. This is something I would equate to slavery; I don’t like it, yet I expect it to happen.

2. Fully-synthetic AGI with little to no biological duplication (more like AlphaZero then Blue Brain) is probably going to equal the performance of low-IQ humans before high-IQ humans, and if it can do that for less than the cost of 2000 kcal/day then low-IQ humans can only be employed for non-intelligence-based tasks.

But that might just mean we mostly revert to manual labour jobs. I can’t forecast this — I’m not a psychologist, I don’t grok politics, and I am aware that I don’t think the way normal people think.