171–180 of 239 posts
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I don't understand why people think other countries should follow the Western idea of morality or what is atrocities. Sino China was involved in WW2, yet look at this.
Given that this is the United Nation definition of Genocide, why do you think this is Western in any way? Remember China had a hand in crafting this definition.
Another holocaust is being committed right in front of everyone. What will the world do now? Sit back and keep taking advantage of the benefits of cheap Chinese labour? Isn't it time to wake up and cut this barbaric behavior if we're going to claim we moved past what happened in WWII?
> SIMON: People need to be careful using the word genocide. Why do you think it's justified and important to use it now? > ZENZ: I have long argued that the atrocity in the region is a cultural genocide, not a literal genocide. I do continue to believe that, generally speaking, the Chinese government does not intend to physically eradicate the Uighurs and Kazakhs, just to integrate, subjugate, dominate and assimilate…
This is similar to what happened to indigenous peoples here in Canada. For the most part, and while there are clear and heinous exceptions, the intent was to wipe out indigenous culture and society. Because it wasn't gas chambers it's been harder to get the general population to recognize what was/is happening. Also, forced sterilization is still a thing, particularly outside of urban health authorities. https://www.…
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/forced-sterilization-la...
In China, “[t]he population control measures are backed by mass detention both as a threat and as a punishment for failure to comply”:
https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c
And Uyghurs have to flee China just to speak out against this practice. Do you see a lawsuit coming in China?
Huge difference.
Whataboutism seems to be the key feature linking many posts here. It's not a convincing argument
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention From the Wiki article, the UN definition of Genocide is met if... ...any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life c…
Which part of this is a low bar, exactly? Like, I don't see any country doing any of that to a well-defined group by accident.
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> But are Han Chinese sent to concentration camps? All of them? Certainly not, China would look pretty empty. Some of them? Yeah, unless you have a special definition of concentration camp. The organ harvesting also does not seem to have an ethnic component. You tend to be targeted if you're loudly critical of the government or engage in unwanted religion, your ethnicity does not spare you.
> The organ harvesting also does not seem to have an ethnic component. You tend to be targeted if you're loudly critical of the government or engage in unwanted religion, your ethnicity does not spare you. If Surgeon Enver Tohti’s testimony is to be believed, then Uyghurs are indeed targeted for organ harvesting. https://chinatribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/A15_Sub...
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This is similar to what happened to indigenous peoples here in Canada. For the most part, and while there are clear and heinous exceptions, the intent was to wipe out indigenous culture and society. Because it wasn't gas chambers it's been harder to get the general population to recognize what was/is happening. Also, forced sterilization is still a thing, particularly outside of urban health authorities. https://www.…
In Canada, it’s due to the lack of proper or informed consent, and a class-action lawsuit is trying to correct that. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/forced-sterilization-la... In China, “[t]he population control measures are backed by mass detention both as a threat and as a punishment for failure to comply”: https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c And Uyghurs have to flee China just to speak out aga…
> SIMON: People need to be careful using the word genocide. Why do you think it's justified and important to use it now? > ZENZ: I have long argued that the atrocity in the region is a cultural genocide, not a literal genocide. I do continue to believe that, generally speaking, the Chinese government does not intend to physically eradicate the Uighurs and Kazakhs, just to integrate, subjugate, dominate and assimilate…
The timing for Zenz shift in opinion is very convenient. China removing family planning policy exemptions for minorities like Uighurs started back in 2017. The policy was proposed back in 2014 and saw some discussion among China watchers in the following years. This is not a new policy change, and one Zenz should be aware of for at least 5+ years.
[1] https://time.com/4881898/china-xinjiang-uighur-children/
[2] https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/08/08/chinese-official-floats...
I understand that China is extremely powerful both militarily and economically, but it just makes me so sad that such atrocities against humanity are occurring at the hands of a superpower, deep into the 21st century. Forgive my naiveté, but aren't we supposed to be past this type of thing as a species already? Wasn't that the whole point of the 20th century - to show us all the things we shouldn't be doing?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention From the Wiki article, the UN definition of Genocide is met if... ...any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life c…
On the other hand, it's a bit of a tricky point because China has nation-wide policoes about fertility (the one child policy and its regional variations) so it's not clear if the Uighurs are especially singled out or simply punished for not respecting a national law.
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Are we? A survery in The Lancet estimated that the Iraq invasion caused an excess of 650k deaths by October 2006. A simple extrapolation would surely put the excess deaths in the middle east into millions. It's different though. We're the good guys.
I’m not saying the Iraq war should have happened, but war as a concept has been around since civilization started. What’s described here isn’t the same thing... there was no formal declaration or ability for them to fight back, and it’s happening largely in secret with denial to erase an entire culture from the earth.