Whataboutism seems to be the key feature linking many posts here. It's not a convincing argument
China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says
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Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says
#12Seriously, suppression of birth?
According the exact same logic used by this ZENZ guy, China's majority group (Han) has been subjected to such "genocide" for decades. As a result of such "suppression", only 400 million Han Chinese were born in the last 30 years rather than the estimated 800+ million.
Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says
#13Whataboutism seems to be the key feature linking many posts here. It's not a convincing argument
Is it just me or does this happen for every article about anything China-related?
Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says
#14Seriously, suppression of birth? According the exact same logic used by this ZENZ guy, China's majority group (Han) has been subjected to such "genocide" for decades. As a result of such "suppression", only 400 million Han Chinese were born in the last 30 years rather than the estimated 800+ million.
There’s an obvious difference between suppressing births of all groups vs. suppressing only a particular group.
Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says
#15Per capita, the US imprisons approximately 20x more of its own ethnic minorities in a similar fashion. The numbers are so huge in China because the total population is so much larger. I think both desperately need to be addressed. It is painful for me to think that in all three of the richest, most populous, and largest countries on Earth, approximately zero of them have a full complement of human rights for all thei…
Canada still sterilizes indigenous mothers, and steals their babies through "birth alerts" and similar systems.
Sadly, this is prevalent throughout the world. It needs to stop everywhere.
Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says
#16Seriously, suppression of birth? According the exact same logic used by this ZENZ guy, China's majority group (Han) has been subjected to such "genocide" for decades. As a result of such "suppression", only 400 million Han Chinese were born in the last 30 years rather than the estimated 800+ million.
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
Suppression of birth does not mean “limiting”, it means “preventing”. The actual U.N. article phrasing is as follows:
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
If the Chinese government was imposing sterilization on their own people in the native ethnic majority, then that too would qualify under that definition, as long as the intent to "physically destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group" is proven (emphasis mine). The same need to prove intent applies to this situation with the Uighur people as well.
Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says
#17Seriously, suppression of birth? According the exact same logic used by this ZENZ guy, China's majority group (Han) has been subjected to such "genocide" for decades. As a result of such "suppression", only 400 million Han Chinese were born in the last 30 years rather than the estimated 800+ million.
The U.N. guidelines for genocide extend beyond suppression of birth. You typically have to meet several of the guidelines, "with intent to destroy," for the UN to classify policy as genocidal. You can find them here:
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
And even the U.N. guidelines are controversial in genocide study circles due to the ongoing academic debate on intent.
Edit: Intent is the most fierce academic discussion in genocide studies. It's the first major academic topic introduce in Genocide: A Comprehensive Introduction (Adam Jones), which is the standard introductory book. Here's a collection of books, not even articles, primarily concerned with intent:
* With Intent to Destroy: Reflecting on Genocide
* The Khmer Rouge and the Crime of Genocide: Issues of Genocidal Intent with Regard to the Khmer Rouge Mass Atrocities
* A Collective Theory of Genocidal Intent
* On the Nature of Genocidal Intent
Not to mention dozens of articles, symposia, proceedings, debates, book chapters, reviews, and more. The UN-defined "with intent to destroy" has become the most notorious and controversial phrase in genocide studies. Adam Jones pp 11-39, 49-51 is my recommended reading for a primer on the subject. It's online for free. [0]
Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says
#18It’s not like China didn’t have mandatory birth control on the ethnic majority.
As a bonus, the mandatory birth controls were recently expanded to ethnic minorities as they were previously exempt.
Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says
#19[deleted]
Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says
#20A lot of international politics/treaties enforcement boils down to - are you willing to bleed and die for that cause.
Unless we are willing to go to war - there are no viable ways to prevent China from doing whatever they feel like in the territory they control. Even the tiny Iran and Cuba survived decades of sanctions.