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MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

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Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#291

Post by pooper »

leadingthenet wrote: post #272
aidenn0 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want all controversial views to be deplatformed, because I don't see any other way that people will care enough about centralization to actually change.

Accelerationism doesn’t work, and never has.

Thank you for sharing. I didn't know this term even existed.

for others like me:

> In political and social theory, accelerationism is the idea that capitalism, or particular processes that historically characterised capitalism, should be accelerated instead of overcome in order to generate radical social change. "Accelerationism" may also refer more broadly, and usually pejoratively, to support for the intensification of capitalism in the belief that this will hasten its self-destructive tendencies and ultimately lead to its collapse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#292

Post by beaner »

baddox wrote: post #253
beaned wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of when Trump a while ago (before the recent George Floyd stuff) was commenting on statues being torn down, and commented something like, "next they'll go for George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, where does it end?" John Oliver did a bit on it answering "Somewhere. It ends somewhere," implying that he was an idiot, that it was a stupid comment, and everybody laughed. Now we're here and it has actually h…

If the absolute worst case scenario you can imagine is that we no longer have any huge chunks of metal in the shape of people displayed on public property, then your slippery slope argument isn't very compelling.

It isn't, see my comment on history below.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#293

Post by Mtinie »

ricktdotorg wrote: post #256
umvi wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of being controversial... I'm going to go ahead and say that Japan doesn't care about racism like America does. Japanese people are extremely racist, but you just don't know it because Japan is 99+% Japanese with But the ethnic minorities that _do_ live there live in segregated apartment complexes, etc. to prevent "mixing with the natives".

> But the ethnic minorities that _do_ live there live in segregated apartment complexes, etc. to prevent "mixing with the natives". source for this? my experience: my wife is Japanese, i have visited JP many times, we know a ton of non-Japanese immigrants living in Japan and they all live wherever the heck they want to live. i've never heard of non-native minorities being segregated either officially (government) or…

The commenter you replied to may have been describing the discrimination faced by people such as the Ainu, Ryukyuans, and others who are not considered part of the majority ethnic Japanese group.

https://www.refworld.org/docid/55a4fa5115.html

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#294

Post by jstanley »

softwaredoug wrote: post #281

I don’t see how you can make a good faith argument the confederate flag is any different from a swastika. Both represent institutions built solely for racist motives and the subjugation of another race.

But, it's just a picture. If you want to put a swastika on your car, the punishment should be that you made yourself look stupid, not that you get banned from the game!

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#295

Post by mikepurvis »

beaner wrote: post #268
klmadfejno wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW the founding fathers did not want to be idolized and probably would not like the idea of Rushmore. I'm not sure I see why its outrageous to think that people want to remove statues honoring pieces of history they think ought not be honored. On the face of it, nothing is owed to the past and society does evolve. I don't feel particularly strong on preserving or removing imagery of George Washington from public ar…

History is important because it lets us see ourselves in the arc of time and be more cognizant of how and why we arrived at the present moment. When we idolize figures who we believe did good things, we project a guide line from the past into the future for ourselves to follow. When we erase history, we lose this guidance and direction. It's no mistake that the mob is responsible for the destruction, because a lack o…

So the statues belong in museums and history textbooks, not the public square:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/06/19/destroying...

It feels tired to still be repeating this when so many others have said it, but Germany is capable of learning about Hitler and Nazism without the monuments glorifying it; Americans can learn about Robert E. Lee without the whitewashed monuments everywhere. And anyway, there was none of this clutching of pearls about history-erasure when the Saddam Hussein statue was toppled in Baghdad in 2003.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#296

Post by generalk »

marcosdumay wrote: post #204
generalk wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies aren't the only entities allowed to publish content on the World Wide Web, you know. You're free to build whatever discussion platforms you like, or you could just, y'know, publish a website.

> Companies aren't the only entities allowed to publish content on the World Wide Web Actually, the only entities with any capacity of publishing content on the WWW are a few tier 1 ISPs. If you push that rope you will discover that your capacity to publish anything you want is restricted by the policy of whoever hosts your servers, and their ISP, and their ISP's ISP. If the end-state of that evolution is every entit…

> If you push that rope you will discover that your capacity to publish anything you want is restricted by the policy of whoever hosts your servers

Fair enough.

My original parent comment asked where you can speak freely online, which for the purposes of my argument I'm equating to US law regarding free speech. (This may not be the angle you're coming from.)

Most hosts will allow you to publish things that fit that description. To take the examples given in this thread: if you want to publish an image of the Confederate flag, or publish something and not have Twitter or Facebook placing ropes around your content, publishing your own website is going to solve that problem for you.

Now, you're not wrong, there are limits to that, but I'm struggling to find out how those limits apply to this conversation in any realistic way.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#297

Post by beaner »

rickbutton wrote: post #270
beaned wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, people pretend that they know about what these historical figures were thinking but I feel like nobody's read a book about it, they're all just learning from their assumptive misinformed peers and that there isn't necessarily an interest in the history. Thomas Sowell, a black man, had some interesting historical perspectives on these figures in Black Rednecks and White Liberals, which is worth a read. This i…

It's important to remember that the majority of these statues were not created after the civil war in order to remember them, but during the Jim Crow era in order to intimidate black people. The intent was never to teach history.

I don't know the history of that so I can't argue it. If you could link to some education on it, I'd like to read about it.

I would imagine that it's possible in some circumstances for this to be true for some, mostly confederate figures. I'm really skeptical that that's true for figures like Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#298

Post by edgarvaldes »

dragonwriter wrote: post #188
sacks2k wrote: post #26

I'm curious why the confederate flag should get special treatment. I had relatives murdered in the Alamo. Should the Mexican flag get banned because I'm offended by it? Every flag represents a group that has been in the losing side of a war and killed opposing citizens or soldiers. Yet, those flags aren't banned.

> I had relatives murdered in the Alamo. Look, I know Texas liked rebelling over concerns that the parent country didn't look kindly on chattel slavery, but combatants getting killed, either in combat or when executed as traitors, after starting those wars isn't being “murdered". > Should the Mexican flag get banned because I'm offended by it? The Mexican flag of that war is no longer used; the current Mexican flag w…

Our 1968 flag closely follows the 1916 and 1934 design, with the eagle in the same position and using (almost) the same symbolic elements. Even the 1821 flag is similar.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#299

Post by RestlessMind »

namdnay wrote: post #39
ta17711771 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To me, that'd be a good outcome for the confederate flag. Where does it end?

Like most European countries today? This slope doesn’t seem particularly slippy

> This slope doesn’t seem particularly slippy

Then maybe you are not looking hard enough and are unaware of the realities in Europe? Some examples:

1. UK libel regime failing abuse victims: https://www.ibanet.org/Article/NewDetail.aspx?ArticleUid=075...

2. Search for "Notes from the Field: EU Defamation Laws and Journalism", where the International Press Institute (IPI) "takes a closer look at the application of defamation law in EU countries, seeking to illustrate the practical consequences of these laws upon both individual journalists and the free flow of information necessary for democratic governance."

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#300

Post by ochoseis »

reaperducer wrote: post #283

Why ban the players, and not just the design? I once ran a large online forum and set up a word filter to replace certain phrases with "fluffy bunnies" and other absurdities. It did a remarkable job of improving discourse once the foul-mouthed types realized their hateful messages were being massaged. Microsoft could use some kind of super-cool AI-drived ML-based image recognition to replace the flag with a rainbow f…

I like this idea as long as it’s transparent that’s what’s happening, because it creates less of a wedge and is humorous to most. Booting people off a platform would lead polarizing resentment imho.
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