I don’t see how you can make a good faith argument the confederate flag is any different from a swastika. Both represent institutions built solely for racist motives and the subjugation of another race.
MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
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Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
#282Honest question. For those of you happy that these censorship policies are being implemented by companies in reaction to pressure, do you believe that the ideal end-goal would be 'anti hate speech' laws like those of Germany?
Very soon even Facebook likes will be illegal in Germany if it's the "wrong" ones by the way. That law passed a week ago or two.
Reddit already bans accounts for upvoting "wrong" posts
Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
#283Why ban the players, and not just the design?
I once ran a large online forum and set up a word filter to replace certain phrases with "fluffy bunnies" and other absurdities. It did a remarkable job of improving discourse once the foul-mouthed types realized their hateful messages were being massaged.
Microsoft could use some kind of super-cool AI-drived ML-based image recognition to replace the flag with a rainbow flag or something.
Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which European nations have rules against mere "hurting someone's feelings"?
There are a number of examples of speech laws in the western world that have banned insults. From 1994-2014 the UK had a ban on speech that was "insulting" The UK's Communications Act 2003 section 127 also says: > (1) A person is guilty of an offence if he- > (a) sends by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing char…
From Wikipedia on the act:
> On 19 December 2012, to strike a balance between freedom of speech and criminality, the Director of Public Prosecutions issued interim guidelines, clarifying when social messaging is eligible for criminal prosecution under UK law. Only communications that are credible threats of violence, harassment, or stalking (such as aggressive Internet trolling) which specifically targets an individual or individuals, or breaches a court order designed to protect someone (such as those protecting the identity of a victim of a sexual offence) will be prosecuted.
Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
No. It’s apples and oranges. Companies should be free to regulate hate speech on their platforms. The government should not regulate speech in the public domain. The actions of private companies on private property (virtual or otherwise) are an entirely different domain than government intervention. Even if you remove the censorship angle, it can be argued that moderating hate speech is simply good business sense. Pe…
>Companies should be free to regulate hate speech on their platforms. The government should not regulate speech in the public domain. While I agree, please direct me to where I can speak "in the public domain" online.
Thats the downside of the modern web largely Boeing created in the US, its highly commercialized.
Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
#286Honest question. For those of you happy that these censorship policies are being implemented by companies in reaction to pressure, do you believe that the ideal end-goal would be 'anti hate speech' laws like those of Germany?
I wouldn’t want people to celebrate slavery in my garden, so I can understand why Microsoft wouldn’t want people to do it in theirs.
But there is a big difference between you and Microsoft. Microsoft is a business serving public, and hence subject to different regulations. For example, Microsoft cannot refuse to serve to women or brown people. You can choose to forbid entry to them in your private garden.
Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
#287Honest question. For those of you happy that these censorship policies are being implemented by companies in reaction to pressure, do you believe that the ideal end-goal would be 'anti hate speech' laws like those of Germany?
No. It’s apples and oranges. Companies should be free to regulate hate speech on their platforms. The government should not regulate speech in the public domain. The actions of private companies on private property (virtual or otherwise) are an entirely different domain than government intervention. Even if you remove the censorship angle, it can be argued that moderating hate speech is simply good business sense. Pe…
I think that's a dodge. It implies that there is something inherently different between government power and other forms of power. And yes, there are subtle differences, like use of force, but at the end of the day, power is power. To be clear, I don't think Microsoft has done anything wrong here, but I don't think free market economics is the right angle to take.
Imagine if it were Facebook or Twitter instead of just a video game. You could apply the same logic to say that Facebook is just a private company, and what they allow on their platform doesn't qualify as a curb on free speech. But those two companies effectively form an oligopoly on on-line discussion, and what they allow on their platforms has a huge effect on the country as a whole. Because their policies end up dictating what people are and aren't allowed to say on the internet, their moderation strategies should absolutely be held to a higher standard.
None of this applies to Turn 10, because a racing game is not intended as a platform for discussion, but that's a nuance that needs to be considered. The blanket statement, "private companies should do whatever is good for their business" does not capture that.
Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
Swastika is a sacred symbol in Hinduism. The original inspiration for Hitler was hooked cross. You will commonly find swastika painted across homes in India.
> Swastika is a sacred symbol in Hinduism. The original inspiration for Hitler was hooked cross. No, the inspiration was the Indian swastika. Same reason he wanted to call himself "Aryan". (The swastika is also a sacred symbol in Buddhism, for reference. One day someone will petition to have 卐 removed from the relevant Chinese Unicode block.)
> The swastika is also a sacred symbol in Buddhism, for reference.
Yes, it's widely used in Sri Lanka for this reason.
Check out the logo for one of the largest all girls schools in Sri Lanka
Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reminds me of when Trump a while ago (before the recent George Floyd stuff) was commenting on statues being torn down, and commented something like, "next they'll go for George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, where does it end?" John Oliver did a bit on it answering "Somewhere. It ends somewhere," implying that he was an idiot, that it was a stupid comment, and everybody laughed. Now we're here and it has actually h…
> figures saying the western portrayal of Christ is systemic racism You mean the ones where he's shown as west-european white? I suppose we could bother thinking about why he looks like that in those portrayals when he definitely wouldn't have in real life.
One reason is that people might feel closer to something that they think superficially resembles themselves. This is part of the reason why diversity is important, according to so many people right now. Not just because groups have more perspectives, but because the people in the minority feel more comfortable when the minority is not so small.
I remember some years ago about a situation regarding a movie. I forget the exact details, but it was something like a Filipino movie about an American disaster, like 9/11. The movie was based on a historically inaccurate story of a Filipino man or family involved in the circumstances, when in reality there had been none. I don't know whether or not the Filipino person was a replacement for a white person's real story.
But as someone much closer to the original circumstances, my perspective is not that I or my community's history has been replaced or been removed due to "racism." It is rather very touching that this foreign community felt close enough and impacted enough by the story to envision themselves inside it, taking part in it. To me, it was an expression of closeness and understanding, not appropriation or racism.
Plus it seems strange to me that in a story where people walk on water and talk to burning bushes and kill gays, that the most offensive or historically inaccurate thing is that some people have envisioned the main character as being similar to them.
Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
#290Interesting that the Japanese rising sun flag is mentioned alongside the swastika and the stars and bars; the rising sun flag remains in contemporary use by the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force.
Yeah, I don't really understand that. Would they also ban anyone for adding the insignia for United States Army Air Forces? What about writing "Enola Gay" on the side of a car?
Imperial Japan was extremely cruel to the people in the places it invaded - which was a lot. Human experimentation, massacring civilians, torture, comfort women. They were basically the Nazis of Asia. They also didn't apologize for it, still glorify their brutal heroes and teach disinformation about it to their schoolkids. Chinese people still have a strong anti-Japanese feeling.