Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe that there is a grace period for billing: https://www.macrumors.com/2019/09/12/apple-app-store-subscri...
Nobody has answered the question yet. Since you can't be guaranteed to be able to bill someone forever, an expired CC being an obvious example, how does an app not break the rule of "Because Apple forbids an app to be disabled or not function". I mean, the app surely doesn't uninstall itself or give you free access forever.
Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial
181–190 of 228 posts
Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial
#182Apple's approach isn't as bad as this title makes it sound. Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription. Makes me feel this isn't them hoping you'll just forget and be billed. In fact, I'd suspect this is intended as a user-fr…
How would that be a bait and switch?
Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
Try to cancel an apple sub after moving to android.
It's pretty easy, so long as you're either using a Mac or are on Windows and able to install iTunes. The subscription-billing-reminder email includes a "review your subscription" link, which opens up Music / iTunes to the relevant buried section. Really, I feel it should be available through icloud.com, but I couldn't find it anywhere. That'd avoid any of these issues where you need access to a non-phone device. ...v…
It took being on the phone for over 8 hours before someone figured it out (I didn't know that was the issue) and they ended up writing off $12 to let me make the switch.
Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
There certainly seems a bias for Apple in here. What I really don't understand is why Some Random Hacker feels the need to jump into a thread and defend Apple, one of the wealthiest companies in the world.
Apple is the highest valued company in the world because it leads its industry in customer satisfaction. There are things to criticize Apple and the App Store over but trying to reduce subscription scams by making subscription terms consistent doesn’t seem like one of them. Why are you taking the word of a butthurt yogi instead of hearing Apple's side of the story?
Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
> shill: A person paid to endorse a product favourably, while pretending to be impartial. > insinuation: That which is insinuated; a hint; a suggestion, innuendo or intimation by distant allusion "Brand affiliation tribalism" is not an 'insinuation of shilling' as I understand those terms. It's a plainly stated description of 'fanboyism.' Per the golden rule and principle of charitable assumptions, should I assume it…
Hi catalogia, My apologies. It was definitely not my intention of mischaracterizing your above comment. I didn't think a shill necessarily had to be paid. My working definition was more along the lines of; "an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler [e.g. Apple] who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others." Brand affiliation tribalism seems to me closely aligned with that definition. An ac…
However I still believe that if any other corporation were forcing developers wanting to offer free trials to use the "billing details up front, autobilling" scheme, far fewer people here would defend it. I see those sort of schemes as incredibly scummy, similar to the sort of tactics gyms or used car salesmen might use. It's a form of 'dark pattern.'
If this is truly about a consistent user experience, Apple has gone about it in the worst possible way. They should instead forbid collection of payment details when signing up for free trials and require auto-renewals to be opt-in. That would make for a consistently positive user experience, rather than a consistently hostile one.
Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is unique to some Apple fans, that it's not enough for to merely deny bugs and criticism, they also often personally attack the messenger. Other companies have bugs which they promise to fix someday; Apple doesn't have any bugs or problematic behaviour and it's your fault if you have any issues. There isn't a thread on HN about Apple without this behaviour. Either this is an unofficial Apple PR guideline or a sy…
Classic strawman argument. Can you provide examples of these people who are saying Apple products don't have bugs or problematic behaviour ?
Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial
#187In this case I think some users are looking for a double opt-in in the case of a free trial, or at least a native reminder in the iOS user interface that a trial is ending and the first subscription charge is about to be run.
For example, if the day before a trial expired, you could receive a push notification from Apple notifying you that the trial period is about to expire, and how much you will be billed if you do not cancel before the end of the day. Alternatively, the push notification could require active user consent before allowing the trial to convert to a paid subscription.
The first option could be done by Apple with zero required action by developers, but since it's definitely going to increase the cancellation rate, probably developers aren't going to be very happy. It is customer-focused which Apple claims to be, but it's also messy/cluttered to be getting billing notifications
The problem with the second option is that it opens up a new state in the state machine, and three new transition functions. Going from trial -> pending approval is a mid-state which would require some sort of shutting off functionality in the app or even preventing the app from opening, or reverting back to the unpaid / non-trial state. Now the user is in a new limbo 'pending approval' state. Then from there somehow the user has to either approve the charge or indicate that they do in fact want to cancel, so going from pending -> unsubscribed or pending -> subscribed are new transitions that would have to be coded for every app.
The current solution is to simply provide a centralized place to see all your subscriptions and when they will renew and how much they cost, and making it single-tap simply to cancel them. I'm not sure a better way they can surface the Subscriptions UI other than within the App Store settings. That top option within 'Settings' always seemed misplaced to me, it looks more like a header than a button, and especially as it is encompassing "Apple ID, iCloud, iTunes & App Store" it's kind of a jumble. They added it into the App Store app as well on the top-right profile-picture button which leads to 'Account' and then 'Subscriptions'.
Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial
#188Apple's approach isn't as bad as this title makes it sound. Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription. Makes me feel this isn't them hoping you'll just forget and be billed. In fact, I'd suspect this is intended as a user-fr…
My 5 cents. Regardless if this is Apple or any developer, subscription service etc., I consider giving my credit card number / paypal for testing any trial software as directly abusive. Maybe, it is just me but from my perspective this is a try to force buying from me by whatever means possible and doing me is like rejecting me as a potential customer: I will just never do it. I hate the need of thinking about some m…
Why waste money on a trial for someone who is unlikely to convert.
You sound like someone who is hard to sell to, so it is in the interests of most companies to discourage you from participating.
Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Couldn't does not mean they will not, even if it is illegal. A lot of shady companies thinks customers will not chase after 5 dollars a month and even if they are right %50 of time, they make a pretty penny.
Compliance is pretty good here in Quebec - nearly no one offers a free trial, and those that do don't auto-renew.
Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why should it be opt in at the beginning of the trial period instead of at the end ?
Because Apple doesn’t want free trials to be “bait” to convince you to pay later. The idea is that you authorize payment and start your subscription at the very beginning, whether or not there is a free trial. With any subscription, you can always cancel at any time (but you won’t get any of your money back, of course). The free trial period works the exact same way.
This is some twisted logic that tries to make a customer hostile feature look friendly.