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Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

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Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#91

Post by yyyk »

iandanforth wrote: post #11

The comments here read like people with Stockholm syndrome.

What is unique to some Apple fans, that it's not enough for to merely deny bugs and criticism, they also often personally attack the messenger. Other companies have bugs which they promise to fix someday; Apple doesn't have any bugs or problematic behaviour and it's your fault if you have any issues.

There isn't a thread on HN about Apple without this behaviour. Either this is an unofficial Apple PR guideline or a symptom of cult membership...

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#92

Post by hombre_fatal »

codetrotter wrote: post #18

I support Apple all the way on this one. Having all trials work the same way is a huge plus in my book as an iOS device user. It’s not about whether this one developer would do totally free trial or not, it’s about complete confidence for the user that all apps work the same wrt trials.

If that's all you wanted, then Apple could have defaulted to a customer-friendly option across the board like requiring a 2nd opt-in to transition into the recurring billing at the end of the trial.

That would be superior in every way.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#93

Post by valuearb »

berkes wrote: post #19
iandanforth wrote: post #11

The comments here read like people with Stockholm syndrome.

There certainly seems a bias for Apple in here. What I really don't understand is why Some Random Hacker feels the need to jump into a thread and defend Apple, one of the wealthiest companies in the world.

Apple is the highest valued company in the world because it leads its industry in customer satisfaction.

There are things to criticize Apple and the App Store over but trying to reduce subscription scams by making subscription terms consistent doesn’t seem like one of them.

Why are you taking the word of a butthurt yogi instead of hearing Apple's side of the story?

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#94

Post by valuearb »

AlexandrB wrote: post #54
m3kw9 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just in your case fail to understand App Store rules and UX.

I think it's Apple that doesn't understand UX anymore. Their insane focus on subscriptions as the go-to model for software sales is going to drive me off the platform eventually.

Without subscriptions small devs would have already been driven off the platform.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#95

Post by philliphaydon »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #87
vulcan01 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that there is a grace period for billing: https://www.macrumors.com/2019/09/12/apple-app-store-subscri...

Nobody has answered the question yet. Since you can't be guaranteed to be able to bill someone forever, an expired CC being an obvious example, how does an app not break the rule of "Because Apple forbids an app to be disabled or not function". I mean, the app surely doesn't uninstall itself or give you free access forever.

If there’s no valid subscription it would all you to subscribe...

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#96

Post by radley »

kemayo wrote: post #9

Apple's approach isn't as bad as this title makes it sound. Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription. Makes me feel this isn't them hoping you'll just forget and be billed. In fact, I'd suspect this is intended as a user-fr…

Apple is forcing a yoga app to do opt-out billing instead of opt-in. That's anti-user-friendly.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#97

Post by subsubzero »

My experience was rather different. I purchased a constellation app (full price no subscription) and after owning it for a year the developer decided to go to a subscription model. I was never told about this until I noticed a monthly charge from apple. Super slimy behavior, I was pretty frustrated. I sent a request to have my charge refunded which apple obliged. In general I really dislike this type of auto-charging and it seems like it preys on customers who are not watching their statements very closely. But Apple is not incentivized as they get a cut of this money.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#98

Post by hombre_fatal »

philliphaydon wrote: post #95
hombre_fatal wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody has answered the question yet. Since you can't be guaranteed to be able to bill someone forever, an expired CC being an obvious example, how does an app not break the rule of "Because Apple forbids an app to be disabled or not function". I mean, the app surely doesn't uninstall itself or give you free access forever.

If there’s no valid subscription it would all you to subscribe...

So you get stuck in a "please resubscribe" modal when you launch the app?

The rule must be "Apple forbids an app to be disabled or not function without displaying Apple's subscription chrome" which makes sense then.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#99

Post by hombre_fatal »

radley wrote: post #96
kemayo wrote: post #9

Apple's approach isn't as bad as this title makes it sound. Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription. Makes me feel this isn't them hoping you'll just forget and be billed. In fact, I'd suspect this is intended as a user-fr…

Apple is forcing a yoga app to do opt-out billing instead of opt-in. That's anti-user-friendly.

After watching my mother confusedly agree to $7/week billing in an app she downloaded to play with her cat, I'm not convinced Apple is in the business of helping users make optimal billing decisions with clarity.

The least the App Store could do is give notifications (not just email) for monthly billing and notifications for "You are now paying $7/week and will be charged " (Click to go to a screen that will let you cancel).

Not to mention, the hostility of having to notice it's $7/week, not $7/month. I literally have never seen weekly billing like that, and I had to look three times to notice it said "week". Just gives scummy tools to scummy people that make rebillware on the App Store, like a game for cats you can make after any Swift tutorial charging $7/week.

At least all apps go through Apple billing, so you get an itemized list of which apps are billing you. Really needs an on-device notification system to help people see that screen though. My mom isn't going to find it, yet she should see it every month she's ever getting billed.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#100

Post by silviogutierrez »

Happened to my app[1] in the last couple of weeks. No big new features, it was just blocked for a minor update.

So now, I lose control over the process and can't even refund the customer if they forget. And people won't try the app.

People who try my app end up liking it, but needing to provide payment up front is a deal breaker for most.

Moreover, technically it requires quite a bit of rework, as you need a user + IAP record together. And testing IAP is a huge PITA.

I'm slightly encouraged to see this happen to a major app[2], to see if Apple responds or rethink this. It's terrible.

[1] https://www.joyapp.com

[2] Which, incidentally I used and love. And only tried because of the free billing-less trial!

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