221–230 of 452 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>we don't get fancy titles Some people get titles like "code ninja", although I suppose "fancy" isn't really the right word for that.
Yes we make ourselves look like clowns rather than professionals. It's terrible I don't know why we're doing this to ourselves.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't think CS is a high social status field at all. I totally agree with you. I believe this is one of the factors why women hesitate to enter the field. They are more socially aware than we are. Also, even in IT areas, technical capable people are relegated. We get good salaries but we don't get fancy titles. We are the only profession that allows to be managed by outsiders. Financial firms(and finance departme…
Please don't assume everyone on HN is male.
There's one other possible, additional reason. I recently asked a 17-year-old high school senior who is heading to college what she's planning to study, and she said it would be mathematics, biomedical engineering, or some other kind of engineering. She's self-motivated -- says she will be studying multi-variate calculus, PDEs, and abstract algebra on her own this summer. She maxed out her high school math curriculum…
> And those kids are mostly boys whose social behavior is a little bit on the spectrum
I a lot of us are on the spectrum, more-so than other humans.
It's that puzzle gene in us that makes us want to obsess until we figure out the problem.
I've also noticed more cases of bipolar disorder and depression depicted here than in other communities.
There's so few of us compared to others because we are wired differently.
I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…
Likewise, you might also be coopted to reach the recognition to become a knight or a lord.
That's a steep cliff to climb in a lifetime if your work field and its impact on society are not understood by most of the population (they're definitely not).
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Using your analogy, probably because there aren’t many well established civil engineering degree programs. I don’t know what “practitioner program” could get you close to a guaranteed spot at a top software firm. I’ve been out of school for a few years and figure this stuff has been changing fast though, so that perception may be out of date. Never even heard of a software engineering degree. Only computer engineerin…
This might be due to different naming conventions in different countries. Software engineering is a common degree in Australia. Example: https://study.unimelb.edu.au/find/courses/graduate/master-of... Though I doubt the content is that different to courses in other countries
(I'm stretching the truth a little here because I also did a Maths major in addition to Comp Sci, but that was not part of my Comp Sci requirements so I think it's still valid to the point I'm trying to make, that the two degrees are functionally identical with different names)
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I've always seen the same pattern in College decision: self-projection. That is, a combination of what they know and what they think they can do/like. I was guilty of that but I don't think I was wrong to think that way. I decided to work in Computing when I was 10 and would like to think that I'm quite good at it, but felt that I'm not good enough at doing essay style exams to be able to pass a CS degree.
> I decided to work in Computing when I was 10 and would like to think that I'm quite good at it, but felt that I'm not good enough at doing essay style exams to be able to pass a CS degree. This doesn't make much sense; you'd be taking math exams, not writing essays. Source: I have a CS degree.
Source: I failed a CS degree.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Scientists - not just CS, but biologists, chemists, etc. - are not in elected leadership positions very much. I agree they are frequently not willing to represent. But again - why? A few opinions: * scientists (computer, life, or otherwise) do not think their talents are best used in making public policy. There are so many other ways those talents and intelligence could be used * perhaps worse pay (though the benefit…
I remember reading somewhere that the Chinese government is full of engineers/STEM degree holders, Physics, Civil, etc as opposed to lawyers in the U.S. Assuming that's true, it makes sense from a 30,000ft level. CCP requires leaders to meet some socio-economic goal and that requires competency and a loose ability to apply scientific methodology. In the U.S. it's much more important to argue your case, sound good and…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Back in late 90s early 2000’s the best hires were the college dropouts. People who went to college to learn CS, got the basics. Then got frustrated and left. I used to compete with people who got masters at same college I dropped out of. I won easily, I was forced to hire various graduates and they were nearly useless.
This myth that dropouts / bootcamp grads / self-taught people form some hallowed overachieving group needs to stop. There are plenty of talented people from many walks of life, but statistically speaking, higher education is correlated with higher achievement and productivity in computer science. I can’t even believe it would be controversial. More advanced training and more network effects obviously lead to more opp…
In the early 2000s there was a big need for skilled developers with strong personalies. Now they prefer developers who follow orders vs skill.
In some places doing less will earn more credit. They don't fit in well in those environments.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’re right. I went to a slightly posh school and my parents actually got commiserations that I was going on to study comp sci. “I.T.” is still not a high status field in the LEAST in the UK. It went down like telling people I was going to drop out and become a mechanic (not that there’s anything wrong with that either, but it’s all about the perceived status of the field).
Of course, status is multidimensional, so to say it's "zero" is a bit immoderate. I studied CS in the UK (Cambridge) and I'd agree that it's not a prestigious field. Having said that, CS academics are generally fairly well off, some being posher than others. I think a major factor in the low status is their lack of cultural knowledge (cultural capital), even if they know or are related to others who do have it. Much…
Going on a tangent here, but I observed the same thing while reading Proust's "In Search of Lost Time" when I was in high-school (20+ years ago), i.e. that the "technical middle class" and even the "technical upper class" of late 19th century France were way below the aristocracy of that time.
A respected engineer who had graduated from the "École des mines" and who might have even held a job as a Government minister had no chance to attend the parties hosted by the duchesse de Guermantes. Things might have changed in the meantime, though.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you hit the nail on the head. On one hand so many successful IT people have no formal CS training or related degrees, which is less likely in other fields. This is exactly how a lot of people end up being good in this field. The barrier for entry is low so people get to hone their skills while doing the work. Compare this to medical doctors where the barrier for entry is years and years of study, making it mo…
Back in late 90s early 2000’s the best hires were the college dropouts. People who went to college to learn CS, got the basics. Then got frustrated and left. I used to compete with people who got masters at same college I dropped out of. I won easily, I was forced to hire various graduates and they were nearly useless.
I think this is survivor and selection bias. There were thousands of dropouts in every cycle and you'd never hear of most. For the ones that ended up being the best, school was probably the limiting factor rather than an enabler.
I see some kids these days doing the same, justifying dropping out of school because Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg dropped out and they're billionaires, ignoring that they dropped out because they could do better than what their universities could offer them, and they dropped out of Stanford or Harvard not community college or small town high-school.
I went to a good school and from my generation a single drop out was successful in his career. He dropped out because he wanted to develop his company and he did. I have friends who still finished their studies even while building companies with tens of millions of Euros yearly revenue. Everyone else who dropped out ended up in menial jobs. Car dealership salesman, cashiers, etc. I'm not going to argue the value of a career but the point is they were certainly not the best. I think you are the exception, not the rule.