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Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

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Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#111

Post by rjsw »

NalNezumi wrote: post #48

I've always seen the same pattern in College decision: self-projection. That is, a combination of what they know and what they think they can do/like . Most people choosing Uni choose from what they know. Majority of young people know little about anything CS or nerdy; They often know the end product (computers, phones, apps) but very little about the people working on it. Compare that to doctors, managers, Wallstree…

> I've always seen the same pattern in College decision: self-projection. That is, a combination of what they know and what they think they can do/like.

I was guilty of that but I don't think I was wrong to think that way.

I decided to work in Computing when I was 10 and would like to think that I'm quite good at it, but felt that I'm not good enough at doing essay style exams to be able to pass a CS degree.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#112

Post by bigB »

chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

I Agree 100%....your social status really only depends on your ability to say yes everytime a relative, friend, friend of a friend and maybe a relative of a friend of a friend has a problem with [Insert anything that contains a circuit board] To be honest I charge everyone now for fixing stuff, relatives included (except my mum...Im not an asshole lol)

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#113

Post by [deleted] »

towerblock wrote: post #92
silveroriole wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right. I went to a slightly posh school and my parents actually got commiserations that I was going on to study comp sci. “I.T.” is still not a high status field in the LEAST in the UK. It went down like telling people I was going to drop out and become a mechanic (not that there’s anything wrong with that either, but it’s all about the perceived status of the field).

Of course, status is multidimensional, so to say it's "zero" is a bit immoderate. I studied CS in the UK (Cambridge) and I'd agree that it's not a prestigious field. Having said that, CS academics are generally fairly well off, some being posher than others. I think a major factor in the low status is their lack of cultural knowledge (cultural capital), even if they know or are related to others who do have it. Much…

[deleted]

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#114

Post by mylons »

chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

i’m one of your peers and i don’t care that you’re staff engineer at google. congratulations, you’ve scaled the advertising business beyond what was thought possible.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#115

Post by hhhhhhhjjjjjjju »

jbob2000 wrote: post #69
chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

I don’t think it’s just that, I think it’s also the perception that computer science = programming. And programming isn’t a career, it’s a job you do for a decade or two before you get too old or move on to management. And if you’re planning on management anyways, why not start with a degree for that?

I've been "programming" for almost 20 years. I'm 39 -- I'm completely self-taught (as in no bootcamps or any other formal education related to CS) and have never had an issue finding employment. I can easily switch between about 6 programming languages, multiple scripting languages, run systems and bang out algorithms. I have lead teams and have also worked as a contractor for several years.

At what point will I face the decision to be "too old or move on to management?" What separates what I'm doing from an actual "career"?

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#116

Post by brendoelfrendo »

tim58 wrote: post #104
ghaff wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That pretty much lays out one of the more standard explanations for why more women don't go into CS. Things arguably changed in the early 80s with the rise of PCs and gaming. While programming certainly existed before that, it wasn't something that most kids were exposed to in high school and CS curricula in general were heavily theory oriented and often in the Math department. Today, if you want to be a mechanical e…

> Whereas, a lot of CS curricula today at least implicitly assume that you're comfortable with computer command lines, basic programming, etc. And, if not, you'd better get up to speed in a big hurry. I graduated a CS program in 2013. In my program there was no assumption of familiarity with the command line. I specifically remember several lectures about how to navigate a file tree on a command line, how to run prog…

Also graduated in 2013, not in CS but in a related major. I'll say this: no, as far as the school was concerned, you didn't need to know anything going in, but the people who had no familiarity with the command line or computing were obvious to pick out of the crowd and those same people tended to struggle later on. The ones who did well were the ones who had sought out that foundational knowledge on their own.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#117

Post by ghaff »

tim58 wrote: post #104
ghaff wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That pretty much lays out one of the more standard explanations for why more women don't go into CS. Things arguably changed in the early 80s with the rise of PCs and gaming. While programming certainly existed before that, it wasn't something that most kids were exposed to in high school and CS curricula in general were heavily theory oriented and often in the Math department. Today, if you want to be a mechanical e…

> Whereas, a lot of CS curricula today at least implicitly assume that you're comfortable with computer command lines, basic programming, etc. And, if not, you'd better get up to speed in a big hurry. I graduated a CS program in 2013. In my program there was no assumption of familiarity with the command line. I specifically remember several lectures about how to navigate a file tree on a command line, how to run prog…

I'm sure it varies. There are certainly "Intro to..." MOOCs out there that mirror in-person courses that basically jump right into theory and just reference some Python (or whatever) textbook. And the discussion boards are filled with people obviously completely out of their depth with even getting started.

There are, of course, other courses more pitched to people with no experience at all. And presumably in person there are TAs and fellow students who can help someone who really doesn't have any background in programming, setting up programming environments, basic OS functions, etc.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#118

Post by jabbernotty »

thebean11 wrote: post #97
battertenr wrote: post #47

The reason is because it is a terrible job. Unlikely 90% of other jobs, you have to mentally burn your brain out each day, constantly learn new things, and focus intensely, supposedly for 8 hours. The reward is nothing, not even good pay outside of a couple of tech giants in the USA. If you compare it to a trade, there is a night and day difference to your mental health. The wage data in this article is meaningless b…

> not even good pay outside of a couple of tech giants in the USA That's a huge exaggeration. In what other field can a bright kid take a 12 week bootcamp and get a job that pays $80k?

> That's a huge exaggeration. In what other field can a bright kid take a 12 week bootcamp and get a job that pays $80k?

They did specify "outside of a couple of tech giants in the USA". Here in Europe, €30K would already be a good starting salary. Personally, 10 years in, I don't expect to reach €80k.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#119

Post by the_af »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #14
chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

Is the social status of computer scientists zero, or do computer scientists choose not to go into politics or other leadership positions? I suspect it's the latter [anecdotal; opinion; citation needed]. CS people are a tribe on their own (if I may generalize); I've not met anyone with an interest in participating in politics. They have strong opinions on politics, but not to the point where they're willing to represe…

I live in a country in Latin America, where I attended public university for a CS degree. Some computer scientists there, some even with PhDs, got involved in politics later. Some even at the national level.

Not sure there's any conclusion to draw here, just wanted to share my personal experience.

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