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My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

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Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#421

Post by jonfw »

lostlogin wrote: post #268
creato wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is comparing murder to every instance of police killing someone, justified or not. Police murdering someone is much more rare. The ratio you are talking about probably is in fact well over 100:1.

When you have been given the right to kill people without legal consequence, the distinction become rather hard to make. There have been a lot of unwarranted killings by police that seem to have gone unpunished, how do you chalk those up?

If the goal is to make a factual argument, then the facts are that the # of police murders is less than the # of police killings, because some portion of those killings are justifiable.

Where we draw the line is debatable, but the person you were responding to wasn't really attempting to draw a line.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#422

Post by vidarh »

randompwd wrote: post #361
vidarh wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please stop spreading nonsense. This attitude is exactly part of the problem > Also, you can see the full bodycam footage and UK peoples take on this stop at https://old.reddit.com/r/policeuk/comments/hbbhkb/a_calm_col... . The bodycam footage is in the article I linked too, thank you, and the comments on that sub are disgusting examples of exactly the lack of understanding I described. > Bear in mind she was stopp…

> This attitude is exactly part of the problem No, it's reallt not. The continued projection of American racial and socio-economic issues in to other English speaking countries by dimwits is the issue. If you actually watched the (heavily edited by the guardian) video, you would see the cop was calm and polite the entire duration. > It was established in court that the windows were not illegally tinted. Yes, and the…

> If you actually watched the (heavily edited by the guardian) video, you would see the cop was calm and polite the entire duration.

I have seen it. I'm not denying the cop was calm. I called that out in my original comment.

But that does not change the point I made, that he keeps dismissing her obvious signs of distress as lies or indications of guilt, and in doing so demonstrates that he does not understand that people do have genuine reactions of fear to police.

By dismissing that fear and acting the way he is doing he is perpetrating that fear.

> Playing the race card in a country where there really is not systemic racism in the police force is disgusting.

Even Theresa May admits that the Met has issues with systemic racism, after a report commissioned by David Cameron revealed massive disparities in Met treatment by race.

To suggest there is not systemic racism in the police force is disgusting, when official reports as well as former top police officers have confirmed there is.

> You don't think her statement of "you're killing black people" is silly.

No, I think it is an expression of fear and panic, that whether or not that specific fear is justified should be sign to the police officer that they're escalating a situation there is no need to escalate.

I do find it deeply offensive that you keep mocking peoples fear response to this though.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#423

Post by fzeroracer »

austincheney wrote: post #338
fzeroracer wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here you go [1]. This DB contains multiple provable violation of ethics in multiple measurable and easily digestible forms such as graphs and stats. I assume you will agree that this is close to objectivity and therefore police are indeed corrupt? [1] https://github.com/2020PB/police-brutality

Yes, qualified data is essential because the goal is accountability, but that still doesn’t answer my original question.

Your original question was 'where's the data'. I provided the data. How does that not answer it?

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#424

Post by jonfw »

kilburn wrote: post #231
throwaway_jobs wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As to murder: White Murder victims: 3,499 (2,854 of the victims were killed by other whites) Black murder victims: 2,870 (2,570 of the victims were killed by other blacks) 2019 police killings by race: White deceased: 370 Black deceased: 235

You are playing a dangerous game here. The above poster said: > from their point of view the police are the people most likely to assault or kill them or their children on the street, more so than random criminals Leaving the "more so than criminals" part out of it: - By your numbers, 10% of the killings are done by police officers. - Police officers account for much less than 10% of the population. Hence, a random p…

The point being made was your kid is more likely to be endangered by police than random criminals. Your math here isn't really attempting to prove or disprove that point, instead you're talking about likelihood of police vs average american. That's a pretty uncontroversial statement you just made, as police engage in a much more dangerous line of work than your average american.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#425

Post by WillPostForFood »

korijn wrote: post #399
noobaccount wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, how can we be more like Italy?

Get rid of your guns

Homicide rate was 4 per 100k in the 50s, spiked up to 10 through the 60s and 70s, dipped a bit in the 80s, then dropped from 1991 to to now back to around 6.

The increase in crime in the 60s and 70s didn't correlate with more guns, the decrease in crime in the late 90's didn't correlate with fewer guns.

There is clearly something going on in the US that drives crime that is not guns. Culture, welfare state, war on drugs, inequality, segregation, failure of the family. Better cases to be made on any of those things than guns.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#426

Post by quantified »

throwaway_jobs wrote: post #180
pjc50 wrote: post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

> because from their point of view the police are the people most likely to assault or kill them or their children on the street, more so than random criminals I don’t think that is framed correctly. Black or white statistically you are far more likely to be killed (or assaulted) by non-police Of the same race as you. I think everyone knows that, and to say police are the most likely to assault of kill black people t…

But police are hired and paid by the taxpayers, and the taxpayers also pay for the settlements against abuses. No one is hiring the other criminals or authoring laws to shield them from accountability.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#427

Post by jonahrd »

randompwd wrote: post #361
vidarh wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please stop spreading nonsense. This attitude is exactly part of the problem > Also, you can see the full bodycam footage and UK peoples take on this stop at https://old.reddit.com/r/policeuk/comments/hbbhkb/a_calm_col... . The bodycam footage is in the article I linked too, thank you, and the comments on that sub are disgusting examples of exactly the lack of understanding I described. > Bear in mind she was stopp…

> This attitude is exactly part of the problem No, it's reallt not. The continued projection of American racial and socio-economic issues in to other English speaking countries by dimwits is the issue. If you actually watched the (heavily edited by the guardian) video, you would see the cop was calm and polite the entire duration. > It was established in court that the windows were not illegally tinted. Yes, and the…

> in a country where there really is not systemic racism in the police force

I think you might find it helpful to do a bit of reading on systemic racism in the UK

[1] https://www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/publications/cjm/article/...

[2] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

[3] https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-jus...

[4] https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/22/europe/black-britain-systemic...

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#428

Post by s1artibartfast »

sixothree wrote: post #362
asjw wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to disagree with the post in general, but at a thousand/year shot and killed by the police in US, they probably are one of the most dangerous threat For comparison in Italy in 2019 there have been 3 people killed by the police, and people have - rightfully IMO - complained every single time. In US more than 1k (1040 to be precise) died shot by cops If we compare the population, there should have been at least 180…

Wait. Do we have actual numbers of police shootings? Aren't these things self-reported and under-reported?

I think total killings are pretty accurately reporting.

There were about 1100 police killings in 2019. This includes people shot or beaten to death by officers on or off duty. [1] About 10% of these people were unarmed. This statistic is the one which is most likely under-reported. About 50 police are feloniously killed per year [2]

[1] https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/05/policekillings/ [2] https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-release...

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#429

Post by jeffdavis »

dragonwriter wrote: post #392
jeffdavis wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have quite a bit of faith in numbers related to deaths. There is a lot of paperwork involved, a body (with bullet holes), perhaps a 911 call, often a medical examiner or coroner's report, potentially lawsuits, funerals, etc. And now there are cameras a lot of places. I guess there could be outright premeditated cold-blooded murders that are disguised as suicides, but I can't imagine that's very common. I mean, you…

> I mean, you can't bring a body in with a zillion bullet holes and tell the coroner it was suicide. Well, no, because “zillion” isn't a number. But with actual numbers of bullet holes, yes, history shows that happens. And that the inconsistent injuries either get convenient explanations, or are left off the report as if they didn't happen. Now, when these things get additional public scrutiny, it's an embarrassment,…

If you don't trust numbers from the washington post and the FBI, I'm not sure how we can expect to have a productive conversation.

That isn't to say that coverups don't happen, and numbers aren't occasionally wrong or manipulated. But how far off do you think these numbers really are?

And do you expect these numbers are manipulated even in areas with black chiefs of police, attorneys general, and distict attorneys?

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