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My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

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Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#361

Post by randompwd »

vidarh wrote: post #339
randompwd wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop spreading nonsense. For one, this person is not prominent by any definition of the word prominent. Also, you can see the full bodycam footage and UK peoples take on this stop at https://old.reddit.com/r/policeuk/comments/hbbhkb/a_calm_col... Bear in mind she was stopped because the car she was in had (potentially illegally) tinted front windows. All in all, she seems like someone who is ingesting too much…

> Please stop spreading nonsense. This attitude is exactly part of the problem > Also, you can see the full bodycam footage and UK peoples take on this stop at https://old.reddit.com/r/policeuk/comments/hbbhkb/a_calm_col... . The bodycam footage is in the article I linked too, thank you, and the comments on that sub are disgusting examples of exactly the lack of understanding I described. > Bear in mind she was stopp…

> This attitude is exactly part of the problem

No, it's reallt not. The continued projection of American racial and socio-economic issues in to other English speaking countries by dimwits is the issue.

If you actually watched the (heavily edited by the guardian) video, you would see the cop was calm and polite the entire duration.

> It was established in court that the windows were not illegally tinted.

Yes, and the cops would have determined that within 5 minutes if she had complied and let them test them.

Playing the race card in a country where there really is not systemic racism in the police force is disgusting.

> And it's this kind of dismissal of peoples fears that are propagating this problem.

What problem. You don't think her statement of "you're killing black people" is silly. John Boyega was struggling in his BLM UK speech so much that he had to give Mark Duggan killing (2011) as an example(which, surprise was a justified killing as he did have a gun in his car and was on the way to kill someone). Also, a nice little reminder that the guardian left the fact he had a gun in his car out of their reporting at the time so as to not give their readers the full picture.

Selfish arseholes playing the race card when they're stopped/caught doing something wrong just makes the rest of us angry as it undermines actual racism when it happens.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#362

Post by sixothree »

asjw wrote: post #306
dragonwriter wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police They are both worried about criminals. The fact that some criminals have badges and guns and a conspiracy of accomplices in positions of power shielding them from accountability for their crimes doesn't make them any less criminals. > Just to sp…

Not to disagree with the post in general, but at a thousand/year shot and killed by the police in US, they probably are one of the most dangerous threat For comparison in Italy in 2019 there have been 3 people killed by the police, and people have - rightfully IMO - complained every single time. In US more than 1k (1040 to be precise) died shot by cops If we compare the population, there should have been at least 180…

Wait. Do we have actual numbers of police shootings? Aren't these things self-reported and under-reported?

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#363

Post by treis »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #325
eMSF wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the black person that gets into deadly altercations with the police an “average” black person? Of the two incidents that have caused much civil unrest lately (enough to be heard of on this side of the Atlantic) there's been one walking catalogue of locally available illicit substances (per the autopsy), and another one passed out drunk driver, with both of course resisting arrest after it is inevitable (with one o…

Not sure what "walking catalogue of locally available illicit substances" is a reference to, as that describes none of the recent police murders AFAIK. Also FYI, in the case of Rayshard Brooks (the victim who took the officer's Taser), the District Attorney said that the Taser "had already been fired twice and was thus empty and no longer a threat". https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-nw-atlanta-ra...

That's misleading to the point of lying. The "already" here means the split second between Brooks firing it at the officer and the officer shooting him.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#364

Post by shadowgovt »

usrusr wrote: post #101
kleiba wrote: post #37

It's crazy but from a European perspective, stories like this sound more like what I imagine police forces to behave like in dictatorships, not in a democracy. After living in Europe for six years now, my wife is still puzzled sometimes by the differences between Europe and North-America when it comes to the police: how they are experienced by the population and how they see and present themselves and which role they…

I think the central difference is that in much of Europe, the the ideal of the perfect police officer would be someone who actively helps people to stay out of trouble, e.g. calming down a brewing pub fight situation before it gets out of hand, or warn you before doing something wrong. I guess this ideal also exists in the US, but there it is counteracted by the opposite ideal in which the police is no position to bo…

If you've never seen it, the movie "Hot Fuzz" is a brilliant piece of satire because it starts as a British cop drama and ends as an American cop drama.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#365

Post by dvtrn »

treis wrote: post #324
dvtrn wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I addressed it by disagreeing with and refuting it. You assumed there was a consensus and agreement on the merits, there is no such consensus ; criminality cannot be a proxy for criminality-at least I don't believe that to be the case. From this, allow me to make my position more clear: No, we shouldn't "expect" an increase in police violence in response to black criminality , because it assumes violence is the appro…

> we shouldn't "expect" an increase in police violence in response to black criminality, ... It's not an increase. Police misconduct occurs in some percentage of interactions. More interactions = more police misconduct. > If I blind fired my weapon onto the streets and bullets went into someone's home, I'd be arrested and charged. And if you handcuffed someone and locked them in your basement you'd be arrested and ch…

It's hard to debate someone that doesn't understand basic concepts like this. Good luck to you.

I understand the concepts well, I just disagree with the premise as you've framed it, and I'd like to think I've done as much without making any insinuations about your intellect or ability to comprehend them or resorting any other form of red-herring personal attack.

Let's do better.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#366

Post by thephyber »

randompwd wrote: post #350
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Bear in mind she was stopped because the car she was in had (illegally) tinted front windows. From the article linked in the parent's post: "Court documents later established they were within the legal limit." There was no need for the police to use violent force against this terrified woman, but they did it anyway.

Yes well done. How do you think police determine if they're in limit or not. They test them. She could have been on her way in 5 minutes but chose to act like an idiot.

> but chose to act like an idiot

Do people choose to have panic attacks? There are lots of documented cases of people who have panic attacks on planes and flip out. Are they "idiots" in your mind?

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#367

Post by jeffdavis »

lucideer wrote: post #78
jeffdavis wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked at the numbers in another comment[1], and it seems that for every one black person killed by police (justifiably or not), over 20 black people are murdered by other blacks. So either there's something wrong with my analysis, or the fear of police is somewhat misplaced. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23579467

Quote from the link you use as a source in your original post > Although half of the people shot and killed by police are white, black Americans are shot at a disproportionate rate. They account for less than 13 percent of the U.S. population, but are killed by police at more than twice the rate of white Americans Pointing out that the point is the frequency and not absolute numbers. Yes, of course, murders by people…

"but are killed by police at more than twice the rate of white Americans"

That's a slightly confusing wording. More whites are killed by police than blacks, but due to the difference in the general population, the proportion of blacks killed by police is about 2-3X.

Nothing makes a police murder rate "acceptable" in the abstract, we should always try to improve on it, assuming we don't make something else worse. For instance, if we eliminate police, we will eliminate murders by police. But murders by others might increase by even more (I say "might" because it's hard to get exact numbers, so I'm just speculating), which would be a net loss.

The point about domestic murders is a good one, but I'm not sure if that applies to high-crime areas very well. For instance, over 100 people were shot in Chicago last weekend, and 14 died.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#368

Post by throw_m239339 »

kleiba wrote: post #37

It's crazy but from a European perspective, stories like this sound more like what I imagine police forces to behave like in dictatorships, not in a democracy. After living in Europe for six years now, my wife is still puzzled sometimes by the differences between Europe and North-America when it comes to the police: how they are experienced by the population and how they see and present themselves and which role they…

Plenty of violence and impunity in European polices, especially in France, you don't hear about it because death are rare, but there is plenty of abuse that goes unpunished. women are getting raped in precincts in France for instance. The only reason one of these cases got out is because the victim was a Canadian woman and France couldn't cover it up this time.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#369

Post by ves »

tartoran wrote: post #182
pjkundert wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly, it is not to protect “private property”, as in citizen taxpayers’ property. They will let that burn, and leave you to die. Their sole job is to protect the state’s property. And the lives and property of those who control the state. Proof: every riot thus far in 2020.

You’re confusing police with firefighters. NYPD don’t handle fires at all

I think “let it burn” was either meant figuratively or in the sense that the police won’t prevent arson.

I don’t think the implication was that police should be putting out fires once started, or that they’re doing that but selectively.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#370

Post by jcranmer »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #181
jorblumesea wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has a huge leg up on this problem due a variety of factors. One of which is relatively homogeneous population, which has historically made it easier to make decisions, approve/fund social programs and also not treat fellow citizens as "the others". Ethnicity and citizenship are closely linked. The US has always had this exclusionary divided culture due to its diversity and racism. It makes it hard to fix some…

And the Roma have never had a problem with systemic racism?

Actually, I think that sort of reinforces the point: Europeans don't really treat their minorities better than their Americans, but their minorities are more, well, minor, so the problems are much more invisible. The "undesirable" minorities in the US (i.e., blacks and Hispanics) make up about ⅓ of the population, while corresponding "undesirable" minorities in European countries tend to be around the 10% range.
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