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My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

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Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#331

Post by asjw »

asjw wrote: post #306
dragonwriter wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police They are both worried about criminals. The fact that some criminals have badges and guns and a conspiracy of accomplices in positions of power shielding them from accountability for their crimes doesn't make them any less criminals. > Just to sp…

Not to disagree with the post in general, but at a thousand/year shot and killed by the police in US, they probably are one of the most dangerous threat For comparison in Italy in 2019 there have been 3 people killed by the police, and people have - rightfully IMO - complained every single time. In US more than 1k (1040 to be precise) died shot by cops If we compare the population, there should have been at least 180…

Well, both of the previous answers prove my point

US is a a dangerous country and the police is not doing a good job at all

If there are so many homicides, who should prevent them?

If after killing a hundred people a month (by shooting at them, I presented only the numbers of those killed by a police shooting) they can't even make a dent on the (horrible) numbers, it means they are doing a very bad job.

Tertium non datur

The mob kills less people here.

And we have at least two of the main five criminal organizations in the entire world.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#332

Post by austincheney »

charlesu wrote: post #254
austincheney wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there evidence that indicates police are more corrupt than anybody else?

This is a question without a purpose. Police officers carry guns, have qualified immunity, and can kill people. Are they using excessive -- and in some cases deadly -- force in situations that do not require it? That is the only question that matters. Evidence suggests that in some cases that they do use excessive force. It doesn't matter if in many cases they don't. It doesn't matter if the corruption ratio is 1:100…

Almost everyone in southern states visibly carry guns. That is not an excuse to ignore or forgive an absence of data or accountability.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#333

Post by randompwd »

vidarh wrote: post #273
pjc50 wrote: post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

We recently had a case in the UK where a prominent (as in winning the British Empire Medal for her services to nursing prominent) nurse was stopped by police, and was too scared to get out of the car. When she told the police this, their response was "I don’t believe you because you’re talking to police officers." She ended up being arrested for obstruction because they kept failing to understand that her reluctance…

Please stop spreading nonsense.

For one, this person is not prominent by any definition of the word prominent.

Also, you can see the full bodycam footage and UK peoples take on this stop at https://old.reddit.com/r/policeuk/comments/hbbhkb/a_calm_col...

Bear in mind she was stopped because the car she was in had (potentially illegally) tinted front windows.

All in all, she seems like someone who is ingesting too much American culture, most noticable in her saying: "You are killing black people" - what??

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#334

Post by dang »

woeirua wrote: post #319
SuoDuanDao wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming from a poor (and incidentally very white) area myself, I understand the sentiment behind 'defund the police', but being comfortably middle class now, I also recognize it's something of a nonstarter with people who don't have that experience. I prefer 'Police Out Of Poor Neighborhoods'. Police actually add value in rich neighborhoods (maybe by definition), and it's got a humorous acronym. Edit: And police are m…

Yes, lets further exacerbate class disparities by now only providing safety and security for the rich. At least this way we can stop pretending that we even care about the poor.

"Don't be snarky."

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

"Eschew flamebait."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#335

Post by austincheney »

glitcher wrote: post #294
austincheney wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there evidence that indicates police are more corrupt than anybody else?

> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. The OP's comment may be poorly worded, but in the context of current events your contributions to this discussion show virtually no sign of attempting to make good faith arguments.

I am advocating for data and accountability over agreement and hysteria. It appears, to me, you are equating my lack of immediate agreement to bad faith.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#336

Post by collyw »

kilburn wrote: post #231
throwaway_jobs wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As to murder: White Murder victims: 3,499 (2,854 of the victims were killed by other whites) Black murder victims: 2,870 (2,570 of the victims were killed by other blacks) 2019 police killings by race: White deceased: 370 Black deceased: 235

You are playing a dangerous game here. The above poster said: > from their point of view the police are the people most likely to assault or kill them or their children on the street, more so than random criminals Leaving the "more so than criminals" part out of it: - By your numbers, 10% of the killings are done by police officers. - Police officers account for much less than 10% of the population. Hence, a random p…

When it comes to violet criminals you can filter down a fair bit by age and gender.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#337

Post by austincheney »

uoaei wrote: post #221
austincheney wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics In practical application ethics violations are knowable breaking of rules or demonstrable malicious intentions.

You have an ultra-simplified view of what ethics can be and how it can be employed. This is evidenced in how you think "ethics" can be defined by a wikipedia page. The concept of ethics is very much different from its numerous instantiations.

Then please provide a better definition.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#338

Post by austincheney »

fzeroracer wrote: post #244
austincheney wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corruption is a provable violation of ethics which is measurable. In so many of these police related threads on HN lately people make absurd claims and then are upset when asked about data or objectivity, which suggests people are looking to complain about something and don’t want their complaint validated with data, which is strange.

Here you go [1]. This DB contains multiple provable violation of ethics in multiple measurable and easily digestible forms such as graphs and stats. I assume you will agree that this is close to objectivity and therefore police are indeed corrupt? [1] https://github.com/2020PB/police-brutality

Yes, qualified data is essential because the goal is accountability, but that still doesn’t answer my original question.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#339

Post by vidarh »

randompwd wrote: post #333
vidarh wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We recently had a case in the UK where a prominent (as in winning the British Empire Medal for her services to nursing prominent) nurse was stopped by police, and was too scared to get out of the car. When she told the police this, their response was "I don’t believe you because you’re talking to police officers." She ended up being arrested for obstruction because they kept failing to understand that her reluctance…

Please stop spreading nonsense. For one, this person is not prominent by any definition of the word prominent. Also, you can see the full bodycam footage and UK peoples take on this stop at https://old.reddit.com/r/policeuk/comments/hbbhkb/a_calm_col... Bear in mind she was stopped because the car she was in had (potentially illegally) tinted front windows. All in all, she seems like someone who is ingesting too much…

> Please stop spreading nonsense.

This attitude is exactly part of the problem

> Also, you can see the full bodycam footage and UK peoples take on this stop at https://old.reddit.com/r/policeuk/comments/hbbhkb/a_calm_col....

The bodycam footage is in the article I linked too, thank you, and the comments on that sub are disgusting examples of exactly the lack of understanding I described.

> Bear in mind she was stopped because the car she was in had (illegally) tinted front windows.

It was established in court that the windows were not illegally tinted.

Stop spreading nonsense.

> All in all, she seems like someone who is ingesting too much American culture, most noticable in her saying: "You are killing black people" - what??

And it's this kind of dismissal of peoples fears that are propagating this problem.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#340

Post by austincheney »

justin66 wrote: post #225
austincheney wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am absolutely not objecting to oversight. I am not sure how you came to that. I am advocating for the opposite, for increased measurable data so that people don’t have to invent their own narratives.

> invent their own narratives Your comments in this thread are recursively ridiculous and I'm not sure how far I want to unwind them, but people are "inventing their own narratives" (this is an astonishingly bad way of characterizing the problem here) in preference to siting hard numbers because the police are not holding themselves accountable, a phenomenon that includes the suppression of the hard data on how many…

Then advocate for better data. You either want accountability or you just want to have something to complain about.
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