Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bon Voyage! There are enough Americans who need an MBA degree. And there are more than enough Americans who can do an investment banking jobs.
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Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
251–260 of 343 posts
Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you sure that's the only reason you were dinged? be honest georgia tech guy. I see you. Why is this flagged? because I supposedly misinterpreted a "fake job interview"?
Dinged? The implication is that they brought him in for an interview even though he was unqualified so that they could say they tried, not that he didn't get the job because he wasn't Indian.
You don't have to bring anyone in if they're unqualified, that is not required by any law I'm aware of. This whole thing smells fishy, both the company and/or this incident.
Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why not just stack rank h1b applicants by salary instead of using a lottery system? That forces the income levels up which should benefit Americans workers as well.
If you did that you'd favour profitable industries (say computing) over areas with actual shortages (say Arabic translators in Detroit). You'd also make it impossible for areas with low cost of living (Detroit) to be allocated any H1B visa. It's one of those perennial proposals that always come up but are really poorly thought out when you look into it.
You could just raise the salaries of translators to $150k to ensure they get a visa. Looking at h1b data it seems they are all employedin the medical field. What do doctors make and why? There’s a shortage of medical professionals. Since translators doesn’t requiring accreditation when you’ll get American workers who will switch into the role from different professions when you increase salary. Making h1bs salary ranked makes the market more efficient and helps adjust incomes in the employees benefit.
Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
#254ITT: People criticizing the H1B program for reasons that have nothing to do with why it was suspended, or considering the fate of people/families who are already here on H1Bs. This is a pretty obvious move by the administration to discourage immigration, in any form. Could the H1B system be more equitable to workers, more efficient, less confusing, etc? Absolutely. But suspending H1Bs and green card applications like…
You shouldn't dismiss comments about H1Bs that are divorced from the perceived motivations of the White House. The effect of suspending H1B is not dependent upon the motivations of the decision. The decision is substantial. It has consequences and externalities that extend beyond whatever single motive we could ascribe to the White House.
This is disingenuous and only possible if you ignore the multiple other anti-immigrant changes the Trump administration has made.
Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
If there were "actual shortages" of Arabic translators in Detroit as you suggest, market forces would drive wages up until enough people with the skills were sufficiently motivated to move to Detroit. In the case of a long-term, widespread shortage, rising salaries would lead to a widespread increase in people training to enter the industry. This is exactly what's been happening with software the past several years.
An actual shortage would, by definition, mean that, at least in the short term, no amount of price pressure would meet the need, because of a supply constraint that prevents response to price level changes. For jobs that need to be done on site and take significant time to acquire necessary skills, national borders can be a supply constraint for labor if there is an absence of local talent sufficiently qualified but…
> An actual shortage would, by definition, mean that, at least in the short term, no amount of price pressure would meet the need, because of a supply constraint that prevents response to price level changes.
There are over a million Arabic speakers in the US, hundreds of thousands of whom are legally able to do the work. I strongly suspect that a number sufficient to handle the city of Detroit's translation needs could be brought in at under (likely far under) the rates proposed above. Having done translation work myself, I can say the pay is often startlingly low!
In the unlikely case that weren't possible, the necessary salary would exceed the H1B qualifying threshold, and translators could be imported to do the work.
What exactly are you arguing here? In what situation would a shortage truly require importing labor at low wages? As they are now, H1Bs suppress wages, especially immigrant wages.
Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
#2561/ Yes, there are companies like Tata and Wipro who game the system to hire software developers at below market rate. This is absolutely a problem that should be addressed. Outright banning H-1B does solve the problem, but it is nowhere near optimal. For many skilled talents, H-1B is the only path to work in the U.S. Banning H-1B is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
2/ No, there is no systemic difference in compensation for non-U.S. citizens at FAANG and equivalent. Compensation packages are formulaic. No one gets +/- X% just because they are a citizen or immigrant. If Google one day decides to pay H-1B 20% lower, they would lose out on a ton of qualified candidates to, say, Facebook. It'd require the entire conglomerate of FAANG, and whom they consider "peer" companies, to agree to suppress compensation for this to work [1]. It would also require everyone involved in the hiring process, many of whom were immigrants, to be onboard. I simple don't believe companies who compete for top talents would find this tradeoff worth it. I might just be living in a bubble, and am willing to be proven wrong. Just show me the data.
3/ Many successful companies are founded or led by immigrants who now happily call the U.S. their home. These are success stories that the country should celebrate, not chastise. You might think that Larry Page could've founded Google without Sergey Brin. You might be right, or wrong. The fact is we only have reality to observe. We don't have counterfactuals to compare against.
[1] I know about the Steve Jobs no-poach email. That was also 13 years ago.
Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been involved with fake interviews. (Hence throwaway account.) The context where fake interviews are required is when your firm has hired someone who is on H1B visa but is seeking a green card. To support the green card application it is required to show that the position cannot be filled by an American who is similarly qualified and will accept a similar salary as the immigrant. In my case the context was my fi…
I get what you're saying, but the "fake job search" never yields any qualified hits, I haven't had to "fake reject" anyone so far. I'm being totally honest with you. I'm sure I could wait a year and finally find an American born candidate who will pass the interview, but that would mean my projects and timelines are hosed. We've tried to go the intern route and hire American undergrads as interns and then convert the…
The goal of the fake job search is to avoid qualified hits, not to get them. If, in the fake search, we had found an American candidate with similar qualifications who would accept a similar salary it would have been worse than useless. Honestly reporting that would have sunk our employee's green card application, and we had no ability to hire a new person at all. The problem in a real search is finding talent; the problem in a fake search is avoiding accidentally finding talent while trying to "demonstrate" its absence to satisfy government regulations.
Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
Really, we should just enforce the original intent of the H1B. 1. Companies that import labor when they had a perfectly acceptable local candidate should face severe fines, and Justice should be given a real budget for running these investigations as a matter of course. And the burden of proof to demonstrate you needed to import labor should be pretty high. If you don't do this, then H1B abuse will happen. 2. Compani…
Personally I disagree and think the notion that we have to give a job locally first is an empty political promise. Like honestly don’t see the point. Just give the smart person a job.
Dude no one has a problem with this if you pay market rate.
You can’t see where the discussion lives?
Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that it doesn’t cut both ways. You will not be able to get a job in their country.
I mean, I don't really want a job in a country paying a fraction of what I make now? It's true though, there is not an existing reciprocal program afaik, but so what? We have things much better economically. And who knows, maybe we could arrange a labor trade deal of sorts with these countries.
By the logic presented earlier , it would only be fair if Americans could compete for jobs in foreign countries the same way their workers compete for jobs in ours .
Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean, I don't really want a job in a country paying a fraction of what I make now? It's true though, there is not an existing reciprocal program afaik, but so what? We have things much better economically. And who knows, maybe we could arrange a labor trade deal of sorts with these countries.
By the logic presented earlier , it would only be fair if Americans could compete for jobs in foreign countries the same way their workers compete for jobs in ours .
Sure, I think that would be reasonable. I have two points though. Someone else doesn't have to do the right thing for us to do it. While it would be better if other countries reciprocated, it doesn't have to stop us from doing the right thing. Secondly, from a practical point of view the demand for people to emmigrate from the US and work in a country with lower wages is not nearly as high as the demand the other way.