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Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

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Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#241

Post by dang »

umvi wrote: post #78

There are 2 sides to every coin. It can be frustrating/demoralizing to American software developers as well, when they go to interview for a job, to see they are competing with an absolute flood of Indian and Chinese H1Bs. Then, when all of your interviewers are Chinese and Indian as well and you don't get the job, you sort of feel like the victim of favoritism and that you've been pushed out of your own country's in…

This crosses into nationalistic and racial flamebait and is a big step down in discussion quality. Please don't to that in HN threads. If you have an intellectually curious point to make about this, that's fine, but venting ethnic resentment is a very different fish. Let's not go there here.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23615984.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#242

Post by stainforth »

srean wrote: post #203
hedora wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d rather not give my employer the ability to abuse my H-1B coworkers. Why should they hire someone who can walk to a competitor at the drop of a hat when they can hire someone that will probably be deported if they step out of line or demand market-rate compensation? (Also, many of my friends have/had H-1B’s...)

> Why should they hire someone who can walk to a competitor at the drop of a hat Because free markets are better ? or so has been the message by US towards other countries

Free market for me, not for thee

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#243

Post by deegles »

quicklime wrote: post #150
deegles wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to convey to a citizen how demoralizing being on an H1B is. If you get laid off, you have at best 30 days to find a new job and transfer your visa (from what I remember), otherwise you have to leave the country . H1B does not allow moonlighting. You can't start a startup by yourself. You can't take significant time off between jobs unless you transfer your visa and negotiate it. Your spouse likely won't be…

> If you get laid off, you have at best 30 days to find a new job and transfer your visa (from what I remember), otherwise you have to leave the country I agree the terms are not good, but isn’t it 60 days? https://cilawgroup.com/news/2017/02/24/uscis-creates-60-day-...

Ah, I was on H1B until 2015, so it was still 30 days for me. Glad it's been increased.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#244

Post by tartoran »

jsnenl52882hehd wrote: post #115

I see a lot of comments that miss the point. H1B visas have their problems and the system could be greatly improved by reforms. But that is not the issue. We are talking about suspension of ALL H1Bs and J visas! Whatever you feel about the problems with the current system, it is a net positive for the US. It has some pernicious negative effects, but ultimately our economy benefits more by being able to draw and integ…

It’s obvious Trump did it for votes. Regardless, and hope Trump will be wiped out in November, H1-B needs to be looked at and fixed up. It hurts too many people and advantages too many corporations.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#245

Post by automated_toast »

1MachineElf wrote: post #117
Supermancho wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone I know, including me? There is _no_ shortage of workers for virtually any industry. There is a shortage of people willing to work for submarket rates.

How does that work without your favorite hole-in-the-wall restraunt closing down because almost no one wants to pay $50 more for a bowl of ramen noodles every week?

I don't care about the restaurant. If I care so much about the ramen I will either pay more or make it at home.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#246

Post by fredfoobar »

throwaway987897 wrote: post #236
fredfoobar wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They also fake looking for Americans- in practice, many of the jobs are earmarked for a specific person, and you are wasting your time applying for it. Disagree with this, agree with the rest. I've hired (and fired) folks for teams and this is not true at all. The wages in SV are very competitive. At one point we were desperate to get ANYONE who could pass the interview, including dropping the bar for the interview…

I've been involved with fake interviews. (Hence throwaway account.) The context where fake interviews are required is when your firm has hired someone who is on H1B visa but is seeking a green card. To support the green card application it is required to show that the position cannot be filled by an American who is similarly qualified and will accept a similar salary as the immigrant. In my case the context was my fi…

I get what you're saying, but the "fake job search" never yields any qualified hits, I haven't had to "fake reject" anyone so far. I'm being totally honest with you.

I'm sure I could wait a year and finally find an American born candidate who will pass the interview, but that would mean my projects and timelines are hosed.

We've tried to go the intern route and hire American undergrads as interns and then convert them to full time by offering them, the conversion rate isn't as good as you think, and they have a LOT of options in the valley.

Let me assure you, the biggest problem faced by any company, startup or otherwise is talent, it's extremely hard to find good talent, We could tweak our tech-stacks to be most open to a wide range of people and bring the bar down. But the bottleneck is still talent.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#247

Post by automated_toast »

thomaspaine wrote: post #130
atlgator wrote: post #64

Beg to differ. H1B's may live the high life in Big Tech, but that is not the experience of most H1Bs. For the rest, it is akin to indentured servitude. They are dramatically underpaid compared to American counterparts and unable to change jobs without losing your place in line for citizenship. I have worked with Indian subcontractors that have waited 20 years! H1B is nothing more than the wealthy using labor arbitrag…

>I have worked with Indian subcontractors that have waited 20 years! And you think this suspension will help them?

Not interested in helping them. Interested in ending a system that is not working out well for Americans.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#248

Post by adventured »

shadowfox wrote: post #197
automated_toast wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want America to be a global superpower. Too expensive. I'd rather be a quiet, happy country that just takes care of its own and chillaxes.

I doubt that would satisfy the ego of most regular Americans, to say nothing about the leadership. Exceptionalism is very deeply ingrained here.

Regular Americans have very little interest in the rest of the world and derive very little ego from that global role. Americans are nearly universally mocked for that lack of interest. The notion they derive much ego from something they pay so little attention to and have so little interest in, is obviously false. Regular Americans are largely indifferent to the rest of the world.

Trump got elected in part on a platform of ending the globalist war machine and reducing the superpower footprint (and the machine has been fighting him on that every step of the way, see: Bolton's new book, where he says the craziest thing Trump did was not attack Iran). Americans overwhelmingly want that reduction. He's going to be the first President since Jimmy Carter four decades prior, to not get the US into a new war. There were only a few aspects of Trump's campaign that were widely popular, one of which was stepping back from being the world's everywhere superpower. Why would Americans want that if their ego is so tied up in it? Because it's not. The US economy is what makes it powerful (going all the way back to the Civil War era), not going around the world playing superpower. Regular Americans are focused on their own lives, making ends meet, not worrying about Libya-Egypt-Turkey-Syria-Russia.

Americans are very clearly sick of policing the world and how much it costs; they're sick of the cost of being spread around the world and involved in every conflict.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#249

Post by automated_toast »

oldsklgdfth wrote: post #131

Related to J1 visas, in my area they are used extensively to fill seasonal openings at resorts. A large proportion of the workforce is east European college students, working 2, maybe 3 jobs, over the summer.

Yeah those J1 visas must go too.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#250

Post by dang »

automated_toast wrote: post #15
czatt wrote: post #4

As an intended MBA applicant for the class of 2021, the recent uncertainty around H1B visas makes me very uneasy and disappointed. I was forced to leave the U.S. back in 2016 despite having an investment banking job and paying meaningful taxes, which was incredibly frustrating. I was hoping for another shot at living and working in the US after completing an MBA, and now it looks like there either won't be a chance o…

Bon Voyage! There are enough Americans who need an MBA degree. And there are more than enough Americans who can do an investment banking jobs.

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