Related to J1 visas, in my area they are used extensively to fill seasonal openings at resorts.
A large proportion of the workforce is east European college students, working 2, maybe 3 jobs, over the summer.
Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
131–140 of 343 posts
Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
#132There are 2 sides to every coin. It can be frustrating/demoralizing to American software developers as well, when they go to interview for a job, to see they are competing with an absolute flood of Indian and Chinese H1Bs. Then, when all of your interviewers are Chinese and Indian as well and you don't get the job, you sort of feel like the victim of favoritism and that you've been pushed out of your own country's in…
Is it ridiculous to consider that you fail your interviews because you’re not as good on a global level because some countries have better work ethic than others and better education systems than others even if America considers them to be “lower than”. Adobe and Microsoft CEOs went to the same high school and it wasn’t in the US ;) - jealous American student
I think it would be ridiculous to attribute your performance to generalized guesses at work ethic across entire nations and their extremely heterogeneous education systems, yes.
Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
None of the big tech cos hiring H1Bs are doing so below market salary; they in fact have substantial bonuses attached to these hires. H1Bs aren't stupid are they're not exactly desperate for work opportunities either.
Pretty sure this is demonstrably false. There are large spreadsheets out there documenting H1B wages at FAANG type companies and they are almost universally less than the equivalent US Citizen wages.
If there are large spreadsheets documenting this, I would be interested in seeing some sources on this. Could you please provide some?
Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://www.npr.org/2019/11/26/783047584/leaked-emails-fuel-... "For almost three decades, Jared Taylor has been publishing his ideas about race at the American Renaissance magazine and now at a website called AmRen, which is considered a mouthpiece for white supremacist ideology. ... The website is not well-known outside white nationalist circles — but it found an audience in White House adviser Stephen Miller."
To be fair the bar to be considered a white supermacist is very low in today's political correctness environment.
And what is your evidence of that?
Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
#135I for one am ecstatic about this. I want less competition for my role, not more. It is hard to compete when the top 5% of every other economy comes in and crowds me out.
Any benefit you have will be short term. In the longer term software projects will move to countries where the talent pool is.
A lot of companies are hiring in Vancouver, Canada for example [1]. If you are a software engineer you want the software industry to grow where you live. Restricting immigration is not how you do that!
[1] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/industry-news/prope...
Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wasn't aware that our government was currently being run by white supremacists. Do you have a source?
https://www.npr.org/2019/11/26/783047584/leaked-emails-fuel-... "For almost three decades, Jared Taylor has been publishing his ideas about race at the American Renaissance magazine and now at a website called AmRen, which is considered a mouthpiece for white supremacist ideology. ... The website is not well-known outside white nationalist circles — but it found an audience in White House adviser Stephen Miller."
The bar for proving that "America is run by white supremacists" needs to be a lot higher than, one guy in the white house reads a blog.
Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
#137Since I'm disagreeing with the majority here: I have nothing but love and respect for people of all countries. I also happen to disagree with the groupthink on the H1B for reasons that have nothing to do with being bigoted. 1. The H1B is unethical because it intentionally brain-drains countries. Why is it good for the U.S. to take the most educated (and wealthy) foreigners from their countries? Doesn't this hurt thes…
while you make some good points, your intent seems to be "america first", which often veils less egalitarian aims (not implying that of you specifically however).
i'd rather advocate "innovation first", and the "america first" part will follow, but without the discriminatory baggage.
personally, i think we should abolish h1b's in favor of wider, streamlined immigration. bring all the innovators here, up and down the income spectrum. open labor markets and let them work to sort out value and allocation, rather than restricting them through political means and effectively only allowing large companies to take advantage of the arbitrage of all that.
that would actually make america great again.
Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
#138Most H-1B to green card conversions are never really offered as competitive jobs. The job postings are so ludicrously specific that they are targeted to that one exact person. Plus, the pay is always lower. If we can't do the job ourselves, we shouldn't have the job.
Do you have a source for that "the pay is always lower" comment? As far as I know, visa status doesn't affect compensation for employees in the same full-time role at FAANG + Microsoft, though I only have direct experience with one of these companies.
All the h1b salary data is public. If you search any of the Faang companies, the salaries seem in line with market rates. I would also love to see a study that shows otherwise.
Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
#139I for one am ecstatic about this. I want less competition for my role, not more. It is hard to compete when the top 5% of every other economy comes in and crowds me out.
Doctors vs Software Engineers are very interesting case studies in my eyes. AMA (American Medical Association) has successfully lobbied congress to cap residencies at 100K a year, essentially restricting supply. Foreign doctors have to go through a gauntlet of exams, tests, and licenses that keeps market from being flooded with cheaper talent and diluting local doctor salaries. Software Engineers have failed to unite…
Medical professions are physically constrained, easier to lobby and limit supply.
Software development is not as physically constrained, any moves to restrict supply will automatically lead to offshoring similar to manufacturing.
Licensing does not limit offshoring. Accounting is the best example of this. There are many licensed CFAs in India and Philippines doing outsourced accounting work.
Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty sure this is demonstrably false. There are large spreadsheets out there documenting H1B wages at FAANG type companies and they are almost universally less than the equivalent US Citizen wages.
Those self-reporting spreadsheets aren't worth the paper they're not printed on. FAANG companies are not hiring H1-B's because it's cheaper. I have been a hiring manager at a couple of FAANG companies, and I can tell you it's just not something we cared about. The only thing I cared about was finding the most qualified people for the team. I had headcount to fill, and it wasn't like that headcount had one salary band…
From what I understand, the H1-B salaries are public, and reported by many websites, such as: https://h1bdata.info/index.php
However, curious -- do these include stock grants, etc? I wonder if the posted numbers are only salary and not TC?