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You download the app and it doesn’t work

youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com

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Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#181

Post by etse »

benologist wrote: post #122
moooo99 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised that Hey! managed to create such a big public outrage about that issue. Years ago Spotify complained about the very same thing and given that Spotify has a much bigger userbase I kind of expected the outrage to be bigger. I suppose a large share of the potential Hey customers work in tech and might have a better understanding of what the app store tax actually means. And the EU anti trust investigations…

One of the Hey founders created Ruby On Rails so he is fairly renowned. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Heinemeier_Hansson

I doubt that was a real factor, but maybe the webpage itself is. It is really well done: clear, compelling, and responsive, even. The Spotify website was more artistic, less visually readable, and didn't have as punchy points or counterexamples, at least to my memory.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#182

Post by zem »

breakfastduck wrote: post #100
hyperpape wrote: post #50

There are a lot of rules lawyers in threads about Hey trying to figure out "tricks" that Basecamp or others could use to avoid the rule. That is not how this works. Apple is not a court, which (usually) plays by well stated rules, and cannot remake those rules at its discretion. No, if you find a "trick" to get around Apple's rules[0], what happens is that you get blocked when they catch you. They might update the ru…

It's a bit of a joke to be honest. Hey are trying to market an app on the app store as a 'free' app. Not offering sign up also means they don't have to add the 'offers in app purchases'. So they're advertising the app as free. Even though its $99 a year. Apples 30% cut is obscene and should be less. But Hey are using a 'free' label to market their app.

the app is free. it's not a hey account, it's an app that lets you access your hey account from an iphone. the account itself has no dependence on the app.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#183

Post by jedieaston »

mns wrote: post #49

So nice for the people of Basecamp to be fighting the good fight for everyone and the small developers. It’s not like they were perfectly fine with the system as long as it didn’t affect them, being one of the “famous” companies out there, while independent developers and small start-ups had to deal with this for years and years. I was excited about hey before, and even though I don’t agree and don’t like the way the…

I mean, they give you MBOX export and forwarding forever even if you stop paying them. What else would you want them to do? The feature stack would be impossible to implement on IMAP, and all of the features would have to be exposed in every client anyway. They are trying to change the paradigm for people who hate how email works today, and I don't think that'd work if they said "Okay, first, add this new address to Mail on your iPhone. Cool. Now if you go on our website you'll get a great email experience."

(With that being said, there's no reason they couldn't publish an API so someone else could write a client...)

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#184

Post by Falling3 »

gdsdfe wrote: post #117
rbecker wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments can do more than just express support or opposition.

it's all this tribalism in the world nowadays ... it's like just tell me, are you with me or against me? as if these are the only options

And unfortunately, we need to know that information between we are willing to judge the validity of the comment.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#185

Post by donmcronald »

searchableguy wrote: post #125
hendzen wrote: post #37

Apple takes a 30% cut of all IAP. Google scrapes info and displays it in widgets above links to the actual content. Google charges trademark holders AdWords ransom to protect searches for their own brands. Amazon kills OSS business models by offering managed OSS services on AWS at an unbeatable cost. Amazon picks off the best performing market place categories with Amazon Basics ‘recommended’ competitors. The list go…

On a more general tone, does anti trust cover knowingly destroying communities and open source tools? All the problems from app store racket still applies such as the tax. And I am not saying android doesn't need a lot of those changes, it's just they break things without helping. There are many examples if you look around. 1. Disguised ads in search results (they have been making ads less obvious) - https://i.postim…

I wonder how Microsoft would do in the mobile market right now if they came in with the same developer first attitude we're seeing everywhere else.

Microsoft hardware with Android, a decent update lifecycle, MS365, alternate store, MS billing APIs, etc. would make a compelling offering IMO. The only thing I think MS would screw up would be sideloading. They seem to be all in on the current code signing / trust system and it's absolute trash.

There are so many industries that have been turned into complete garbage by rent seekers that I feel like anything that doesn't absolutely screw developers and customers would be super successful. The problem is that we only have about 5 tech companies on the planet that are big enough to compete.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#186

Post by phaedryx »

hakcermani wrote: post #155
mns wrote: post #49

So nice for the people of Basecamp to be fighting the good fight for everyone and the small developers. It’s not like they were perfectly fine with the system as long as it didn’t affect them, being one of the “famous” companies out there, while independent developers and small start-ups had to deal with this for years and years. I was excited about hey before, and even though I don’t agree and don’t like the way the…

.. haha true, one walled garden at a time ! Maybe Hey will do the right thing and let you export out the email, whenever you wish .. as json or txt !

https://hey.com/faqs/#if-i-don-t-like-hey-can-i-export-my-em...

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#187

Post by tempestn »

scarface74 wrote: post #133
iSoron wrote: post #5

> "That’s not what we want on the store" -- Apple Vice President of Worldwide Marketing What if I own an iPhone and HEY is what I want on my phone? How can I override Apple's decision? If I can't, who really owns this device?

BaseCamp is free to offer in app subscription and charge 43% more than directly on their website.

Yeah, they just can't have anything in the app mentioning that they're doing so. That doesn't sound very user-friendly either.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#188

Post by SpaceRaccoon »

wldlyinaccurate wrote: post #149
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can use Google Chrome, and still use a non-Google search engine. I can use a Kindle, and still read DRM-Free epubs. Yes, all the major tech companies are engaged in rent seeking. But Apple is the only one that says users must either must pay rent or throw away their hardware. The App Store and its policies are not the problem. The App Store is Apple's store, just like Amazon.com is Amazon's store. But the App Store…

Doesn't Android have the same problem? If your app isn't in the Play Store, it may as well not exist.

You can download alternative app stores. For example, here is the Yandex app store: https://store.yandex.com/

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#189

Post by iainmerrick »

MattGaiser wrote: post #65
hakcermani wrote: post #11

Good start with compiling the list .. a couple more .. AirBnb, All airline apps. Maybe they have contracts with the big guys for some lump sum deal, or maybe they are just letting them go as they have to ... We developers already pay for the subscription, WWDC, a shiny iPhone / MBP every couple of years (to test and develop the new features :(, learn a language and sdks just for the Apple world - We Devs need Apple f…

It is about 1/4 of net profit. They make 15 billion in revenue a year on the app store. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/07/apple-app-store-had-estimate...

I agree with everyone else here that Apple’s weird rules and the inconsistent way they’re enforced are both bad. But I don’t think the solution is as obvious as “drop the 30% cut”.

How should Apple go about making money from the App Store? Paid apps are dwindling off. They do charge a flat fee per developer, but it can’t be too large or they’ll lose all the indie developers, and there just aren’t enough developers overall to make that a viable business on its own. They could charge a flat fee to the developer per app download -- something really small, a few cents per download -- but then what about free apps?

What they want is to take a share of the profits from developers who are making money on their platform, while also supporting free apps free of charge. The 30% fee is their attempt to do that. The problem is that it’s easy to game the system and just run your payments outside their store. Hence all the silly rules to try to prevent that.

Maybe 30% is just too much. Would people complain as much if it were 10%, or 5%?

Or maybe they should just give up on App Store revenue and focus on hardware sales. But it would be a little weird for them not to have a direct incentive to improve the store experience for users.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#190

Post by nodamage »

While I agree that Apple should probably relax their rules, this list of "exceptions" is not particularly compelling.

The majority of them are companion apps for physical products/memberships for which the rules around in-app purchases do not apply: Tesla, Soho House, Wells Fargo, Blue Cross / Blue Shield, WeWork.

Github has a free tier and doesn't require a paying membership to use.

Netflix is a digital content app for which there is a specific exemption under rule 3.1.3(a).

Bloomberg and Salesforce might also fall under the 3.1.3(a) exemption for "access to professional databases", I'm not sure.

App Store Connect is their own app. Apple's apps have always been able to use private APIs and do other things the rest of us can't.

The only other app in this list that is actually similar to Hey in terms of product type and monetization is Fastmail. (And it looks like Fastmail was recently asked to add IAP to their app as well.)

The rules around in-app purchases have been well known for a long time (by iOS devs at least, clearly not by the general public or even tech people).

Releasing an app that does not follow the rules and then publicly complaining when it is inevitably rejected is starting to seem more like a guerrilla marketing tactic more than anything else. (And a clever one too, I don't think yet-another-email-app would have gotten nearly the same amount of press coverage that this has.)

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