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You download the app and it doesn’t work

youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com

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Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#121

Post by Spivak »

tomlagier wrote: post #103

I think the standard response should be to allow the in-app signup/purchase with a 42% marked up rate and a very clear line item that it is the "Apple platform tax, not charged via other distributors". Worth doing the same to Google IMO. I think the "right" amount to charge would be something like a standard credit card processor - 30 cents + 3% or so. Maybe a flat 5 or 10% for apps under a certain price. I can't ima…

You're not paying for the payment processing. You never have been paying for the payment processing. You're paying for the fact that iOS devices are an extremely valuable retail space and being able to sell there is worth a lot of money to your sales funnel.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#122

Post by benologist »

moooo99 wrote: post #115
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #2

It's a good thing for Apple that WWDC isn't in-person this year. I wouldn't trust the developers in the audience to stay quiet and applause at the announcements this year...

I'm surprised that Hey! managed to create such a big public outrage about that issue. Years ago Spotify complained about the very same thing and given that Spotify has a much bigger userbase I kind of expected the outrage to be bigger. I suppose a large share of the potential Hey customers work in tech and might have a better understanding of what the app store tax actually means. And the EU anti trust investigations…

One of the Hey founders created Ruby On Rails so he is fairly renowned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Heinemeier_Hansson

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#123

Post by spzb »

tomlagier wrote: post #103

I think the standard response should be to allow the in-app signup/purchase with a 42% marked up rate and a very clear line item that it is the "Apple platform tax, not charged via other distributors". Worth doing the same to Google IMO. I think the "right" amount to charge would be something like a standard credit card processor - 30 cents + 3% or so. Maybe a flat 5 or 10% for apps under a certain price. I can't ima…

I’m pretty sure Apple’s rules say you can’t charge more on their platform than you do elsewhere

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#125

Post by searchableguy »

hendzen wrote: post #37

Apple takes a 30% cut of all IAP. Google scrapes info and displays it in widgets above links to the actual content. Google charges trademark holders AdWords ransom to protect searches for their own brands. Amazon kills OSS business models by offering managed OSS services on AWS at an unbeatable cost. Amazon picks off the best performing market place categories with Amazon Basics ‘recommended’ competitors. The list go…

On a more general tone, does anti trust cover knowingly destroying communities and open source tools?

All the problems from app store racket still applies such as the tax. And I am not saying android doesn't need a lot of those changes, it's just they break things without helping. There are many examples if you look around.

1. Disguised ads in search results (they have been making ads less obvious) - https://i.postimg.cc/h4V8TbqF/Screenshot-20200620-041823-Goo...

Even if you search the exact name, it will bombard you with whoever is paying the most.

2. Google closed source their play billing library recently. Apps which use the library can't be put on fdroid.

3. At Google I/O 2018, Google introduced an alternative app distribution format called the Android App Bundle with the file extension .aab. This format requires giving a copy of your app’s signing key to Google. AABs are harder for users to manually sideload as they aren’t natively supported by Android’s package installer and must be unpacked and devs have to do more work to distribute on other platforms.

4. Google killing Termux with Android 10 and many others relying on the functionality by removing the perms to execute binaries.

5. Fdroid can't auto update because of restrictions by google.

6. Broke custom recoveries such as TWRP.

7. Irresponsible automated ban of anything covid. Surprisingly this doesn't or never affect popular apps. Must be because they whitelist them.

2] https://www.xda-developers.com/f-droid-android-apps-google-p...

3] https://www.xda-developers.com/google-play-billing-v3-app-bu...

4] https://github.com/termux/termux-packages/wiki/Termux-and-An...

6] https://www.xda-developers.com/twrp-lead-explains-android-10...

7] https://9to5google.com/2020/05/19/podcast-addict-banned/

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#126

Post by moooo99 »

catalogia wrote: post #89
iwasakabukiman wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just Apple, the entire electronics industry.

TVs used to come with circuit diagrams so that people could repair it themselves at home using standard parts. I've not seen anything like that in many years, even for far simpler appliances.

> TVs used to come with circuit diagrams so that people could repair it themselves at home using standard parts.

Nowadays a brand new high end +2000€ Samsung TV comes with ads (!) in the menu and the apps feel like they'd be running on a potato. With that kind of Smart TVs, the hardware won't be the issue since it'll be the software that will be obsole way before the hardware. Smart TV is not a promise, its a thread.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#127

Post by alfonsodev »

parsimo2010 wrote: post #52

I think there needs to be some distinction between apps that are the main product (or close to it) and apps that support another product (like there is npo point to having the app by itself, you should already have gotten the product/account before downloading the app). I don't know too much about Apple's rules to know if they use that criteria, but it makes sense to me. An app to manage your Tesla makes no sense unl…

The Tesla example is unfortunate to support he point because Apple doesn’t charge 30% on physical goods. A funny idea, maybe some apps should sell a physical card, or wearable that gives you access to premium features, but it would be ecological.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#128

Post by Wowfunhappy »

hendzen wrote: post #37

Apple takes a 30% cut of all IAP. Google scrapes info and displays it in widgets above links to the actual content. Google charges trademark holders AdWords ransom to protect searches for their own brands. Amazon kills OSS business models by offering managed OSS services on AWS at an unbeatable cost. Amazon picks off the best performing market place categories with Amazon Basics ‘recommended’ competitors. The list go…

I can use Google Chrome, and still use a non-Google search engine. I can use a Kindle, and still read DRM-Free epubs.

Yes, all the major tech companies are engaged in rent seeking. But Apple is the only one that says users must either must pay rent or throw away their hardware.

The App Store and its policies are not the problem. The App Store is Apple's store, just like Amazon.com is Amazon's store. But the App Store shouldn't be the only way to get software on my phone. And no, reinstalling apps from a computer every seven days doesn't count.

(The semi-exceptions are game consoles. I don't like that either, but since they're single-purpose devices I find it much less bad.)

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#129

Post by hyperpape »

breakfastduck wrote: post #100
hyperpape wrote: post #50

There are a lot of rules lawyers in threads about Hey trying to figure out "tricks" that Basecamp or others could use to avoid the rule. That is not how this works. Apple is not a court, which (usually) plays by well stated rules, and cannot remake those rules at its discretion. No, if you find a "trick" to get around Apple's rules[0], what happens is that you get blocked when they catch you. They might update the ru…

It's a bit of a joke to be honest. Hey are trying to market an app on the app store as a 'free' app. Not offering sign up also means they don't have to add the 'offers in app purchases'. So they're advertising the app as free. Even though its $99 a year. Apples 30% cut is obscene and should be less. But Hey are using a 'free' label to market their app.

This would be a legitimate complaint if Apple let you show an app as free with non-Apple subscription.

It is actually against Apple’s rules for Basecamp to make it any clearer.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#130

Post by Signez »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #104
Grimm1 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do it at no benefit to the OSS providers, that's the issue.

Why do they need to benefit the OSS provider? The license doesn't contain anything suggesting otherwise. If authors want credit and money, the license needs to state as much. You can't publish something saying "do whatever you want" and then complain that people aren't being fair to you.

> You can't publish something saying "do whatever you want" and then complain that people aren't being fair to you.

Well… you can complain. You just can't sue them. But the complaint would still be valid.

You can act like a jerk and follow all the laws at the same time, it's just that the consequences for you won't be identical.

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