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You download the app and it doesn’t work

youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com

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Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#151

Post by Spivak »

donmcronald wrote: post #145
Spivak wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why though? Apple is well-aware of their worth in your sales funnel and know that customer acquisition outside of their store/devices is a lot more expensive. Nobody would be complaining if you Apple's user-base wasn't so juicy that your best option is forking over 30%. If it was easy to acquire customers outside the store it wouldn't even be an issue.

Forking over 30% isn't the best option. It's the only option. If Apple had unlisted apps that didn't show up in the store listings and required a click through from your website to get to the app's store page, I bet some developers would opt for that if it meant they didn't have to pay the 30% tax.

Right, but the value isn't that you're listed in the app store, the value is that you can collect payment on-device. The store isn't the retail space, the whole device it.

You could not release an app in their store and ignore their existence entirely. But that's ridiculous and you can't afford to do that because their user-base is so valuable. And so Apple charges a premium because they know that.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#152

Post by scarface74 »

tootie wrote: post #94
MattGaiser wrote: post #53

One of the problems is that as a consumer, I like the features Apple implements with this. I can just use Apple Pay instead of handing over my credit card. Don't want a subscription? No complicated process. No need to call a number. No need to email anyone. I just click to cancel and I am done. As lousy as this is, the consumer experience is dramatically improved.

I disagree about the value of the ecosystem but that's just personal taste. From an economic perspective, Apple is raking in cash and it only investing part of it back into feature development. They're 30% in-app purchase rent could just be 15 or 20% and they'd still be able to easily fund their UX teams. They're not charging what they need to operate, they're charging as much as the market can bare. And the market c…

What company doesn’t charge what the market will bare and has a goal to just break even?

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#153

Post by dylz »

wldlyinaccurate wrote: post #149
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can use Google Chrome, and still use a non-Google search engine. I can use a Kindle, and still read DRM-Free epubs. Yes, all the major tech companies are engaged in rent seeking. But Apple is the only one that says users must either must pay rent or throw away their hardware. The App Store and its policies are not the problem. The App Store is Apple's store, just like Amazon.com is Amazon's store. But the App Store…

Doesn't Android have the same problem? If your app isn't in the Play Store, it may as well not exist.

A large part of the world (China) runs their own app stores for Android.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#154

Post by Grimm1 »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #104
Grimm1 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do it at no benefit to the OSS providers, that's the issue.

Why do they need to benefit the OSS provider? The license doesn't contain anything suggesting otherwise. If authors want credit and money, the license needs to state as much. You can't publish something saying "do whatever you want" and then complain that people aren't being fair to you.

1 point by Grimm1 8 minutes ago | edit | delete [–]

The licenses weren't conceived of with the thought of something like AWS. Now that we're in the midst of things that's changing but what is an officially supported open source license [0] is too slow so you can't use the OSS label if you've you're not using the approved licenses. Both Mongo and Elasticsearch have changed their licenses to prevent cloud players from taking advantage of their work and companies like Gitlab make a clear distinction between their FOSS parts and what they make money on by using two different licenses. The issues are only a little over a half decade old now the OSS players are starting to figure it out.

Open source just doesn't mean anyone can use it, there's a definition to adhere to and and org managing that definition. [1]

It was never intended as a free for all.

[0] https://opensource.org/licenses [1] https://opensource.org/about

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#155

Post by hakcermani »

mns wrote: post #49

So nice for the people of Basecamp to be fighting the good fight for everyone and the small developers. It’s not like they were perfectly fine with the system as long as it didn’t affect them, being one of the “famous” companies out there, while independent developers and small start-ups had to deal with this for years and years. I was excited about hey before, and even though I don’t agree and don’t like the way the…

.. haha true, one walled garden at a time ! Maybe Hey will do the right thing and let you export out the email, whenever you wish .. as json or txt !

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#156

Post by Wowfunhappy »

wldlyinaccurate wrote: post #149
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can use Google Chrome, and still use a non-Google search engine. I can use a Kindle, and still read DRM-Free epubs. Yes, all the major tech companies are engaged in rent seeking. But Apple is the only one that says users must either must pay rent or throw away their hardware. The App Store and its policies are not the problem. The App Store is Apple's store, just like Amazon.com is Amazon's store. But the App Store…

Doesn't Android have the same problem? If your app isn't in the Play Store, it may as well not exist.

No, because you can sideload Android apps. Fortnite for Android isn't in the Play Store, and it definitely exists.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#158

Post by zaroth »

There are very few examples here which are direct comparisons.

There's a difference between an app which is an auxiliary offering to an existing service, and an app which is the product itself.

I totally understand Apple's "it should just work" policy. Its a big reason why the net spend in the App Store is as high as it is. App Store is a big reason why people are spending money on small dollar apps in the first place.

There are approximately 2 million apps in the App Store. How many of them would be trying to collect credit card information independently if Apple stepped back from their IAP policy? It was be a usability and privacy nightmare. For the average user, tap to purchase / IAP is what makes the App Store "just work".

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#159

Post by parsimo2010 »

paulhodge wrote: post #102
parsimo2010 wrote: post #52

I think there needs to be some distinction between apps that are the main product (or close to it) and apps that support another product (like there is npo point to having the app by itself, you should already have gotten the product/account before downloading the app). I don't know too much about Apple's rules to know if they use that criteria, but it makes sense to me. An app to manage your Tesla makes no sense unl…

Tesla is definitely one of the easier cases to think about, the rest are in a grey area. But even with Tesla it's not 100% crystal clear. There might be some buyers who pick Tesla specifically because of the fancy tech features like Summon mode. It's impossible to use Summon mode without the app. So for one of those buyers, the app is an essential part of the purchase, just like HEY subscribers who expect to read ema…

I don't think every app comes with a clear label attached, but I think most people could decide which apps are the product and which apps are just a feature for the product. For argument's sake, I'll claim the core distinction to be if the only realistic alternative to use a product is through an app on another platform or through a web browser, then the app is the core product and not just a supporting feature. The product can live on servers, but if it weren't for the app then the servers wouldn't matter.

I can still drive a Tesla without the app. It's clear that the core product is car, not the app. Some people may have bought it because of a defining feature, but you are not paying $80k for Summon mode. You are paying $80k for a car that has Summon mode.

Wells Fargo offers almost all of their functionality through physical branches and ATMs. Having an app is just a feature, a bank account is clearly not an app.

I cannot use Netflix without an app or browser on my TV, phone, tablet, or computer. There are movies stored on servers, but I'm not paying $15/month unless I can watch movies. That means Netflix's core product is an app and per Apple's rules they should offer in-app purchases.

WeWork is a little harder for me. They are a real estate company but I'm not sure you could call WeWork and get a workspace over the phone nor could you do it in person (you can call a landlord directly, but that is not WeWork's product). I think their core product is that you can book a space online or with an app. I think they need to have in-app signup and purchases.

Github is the most gray one for me- once setup, I use it mostly through the command line. I could claim that the core product is not an app, but I don't honestly believe that. I use a significant part of GitHub's feature set through the browser (discovering repositories, clicking through links to read about a package before cloning it).

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#160

Post by Hamuko »

Spivak wrote: post #146
Hamuko wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately Apple's intention is that you would not hear about an alternative way to pay for the subscription and that the alternative way is cheaper.

I mean if you partnered with Target to sell your shampoo I think they would be rightfully pissed if the bottles you sent them to put down said something like "Buy it on our website instead for 30% cheaper!"

I imagine that if a consumer sees a product at Target, they have an idea that the product might be cheaper somewhere else. However, do consumers have an idea that if they seen an in-app purchase that the exact same thing might actually be on sale somewhere else and that it has a different price?

If the app says that "One year HEY subscription" is $142 and the app is from HEY itself, what reason is there to believe that it's not just the plain old price of HEY?

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