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You download the app and it doesn’t work

youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com

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Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#111

Post by MattGaiser »

Grimm1 wrote: post #87
MattGaiser wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amazon kills OSS business models by offering managed OSS services on AWS at an unbeatable cost. I don't get the objection to this one. Isn't the point of open source to let the best vendor win? Too many companies fail to realize that you must relentlessly wage war on cost to survive.

They do it at no benefit to the OSS providers, that's the issue.

But isn't that part of the point of open source? If you want people to have to pay for it in some way, it needs to be part of the license. The license is essentially free for all.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#112

Post by Hamuko »

breakfastduck wrote: post #80
Hamuko wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As lousy as this is, the consumer experience is dramatically improved. Is that worth paying $43 extra per year on a HEY subscription?

Not to me, but that's my choice to make. I just won't use it.

Unfortunately Apple's intention is that you would not hear about an alternative way to pay for the subscription and that the alternative way is cheaper.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#113

Post by Spivak »

breakfastduck wrote: post #83
013a wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do too. But, a better middle-ground needs to be found which services both consumers and developers. It could literally be as simple as something closer to a 90/10 split.

There wouldn't be uproar if it was 10%. Everything else is perfectly reasonable but taking a 30% cut is extreme.

Why though? Apple is well-aware of their worth in your sales funnel and know that customer acquisition outside of their store/devices is a lot more expensive.

Nobody would be complaining if you Apple's user-base wasn't so juicy that your best option is forking over 30%. If it was easy to acquire customers outside the store it wouldn't even be an issue.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#114

Post by the_gipsy »

paulgb wrote: post #36
rocky1138 wrote: post #14

All of these examples work as websites. What this says to me is that we actually don't _need_ apps.

Except Hey, which would need the Push API to build a reasonable PWA experience. Android and Safari desktop have it, but not iOS. https://caniuse.com/#feat=push-api

Android has this feature for how many years now?

I tried to look it up, I saw 13 years but that sounded like too long.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#115

Post by moooo99 »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #2

It's a good thing for Apple that WWDC isn't in-person this year. I wouldn't trust the developers in the audience to stay quiet and applause at the announcements this year...

I'm surprised that Hey! managed to create such a big public outrage about that issue. Years ago Spotify complained about the very same thing and given that Spotify has a much bigger userbase I kind of expected the outrage to be bigger.

I suppose a large share of the potential Hey customers work in tech and might have a better understanding of what the app store tax actually means. And the EU anti trust investigations probably play role too?

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#116

Post by catalogia »

scubbo wrote: post #98
catalogia wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TVs used to come with circuit diagrams so that people could repair it themselves at home using standard parts. I've not seen anything like that in many years, even for far simpler appliances.

I feel like that's a disingenuous comparison, given how complex the electronics of appliances must be nowadays (disclaimer: I have absolutely no idea, my experience is strictly at the software level) - but the general principle should still apply to be able to use products that you own in a (non-harmful) way that you choose.

Loads of appliances are still straight forward, simpler than TVs ever were. Vacuum cleaners are not exactly supercomputers.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#117

Post by gdsdfe »

rbecker wrote: post #99
happytoexplain wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many comments written in this weirdly contradictory tone - I can't tell if you support or oppose the behaviors of these companies.

Comments can do more than just express support or opposition.

it's all this tribalism in the world nowadays ... it's like just tell me, are you with me or against me? as if these are the only options

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#118

Post by mikenew »

I've been a freelance iOS app developer for almost a decade. Apple has always operated this way. They have rules that are somewhat vague, and they choose when they want to enforce them and how they should be interpreted.

For example: you weren't allowed to show device bezels in app store screenshots for a long time, even though all the major apps did exactly that. If you were a small time developer though you would get rejected, sometimes, with that cited as a reason. There's currently the same problems with asking for app reviews. Everyone wants to filter users through the "do you like the app? Yes/No" popups to try and make sure only good reviews get through. It's explicitly stated in the app store guidelines that you have to use the system provided prompt that doesn't allow for that, but it's only selectively enforced. So if your competition is filtering reviews but you aren't allowed to, you're at a huge disadvantage. And there's plenty of other ambiguous rules like that. In app purchases being a major one. You could have your app on the store for a year and then suddenly get a rejection notice on a bugfix update that they don't like your payment setup.

Point is: Apple will do absolutely whatever they want, and you have zero recourse. If you're a small developer it can kill you. Plenty of people will say "just follow the rules and you won't have a problem", but the rules are arbitrary and selectively enforced. For example, there was the Steam Link app debacle that Apple decided to reject after it's big release, and they literally just wrote new rules to exclude it[0]. And if they allowed alternative app stores I think you could excuse a lot of it. But they don't. And they never will unless they are forced to.

0: https://www.macworld.com/article/3276327/the-steam-link-app-...

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#119

Post by ksec »

breakfastduck wrote: post #100
hyperpape wrote: post #50

There are a lot of rules lawyers in threads about Hey trying to figure out "tricks" that Basecamp or others could use to avoid the rule. That is not how this works. Apple is not a court, which (usually) plays by well stated rules, and cannot remake those rules at its discretion. No, if you find a "trick" to get around Apple's rules[0], what happens is that you get blocked when they catch you. They might update the ru…

It's a bit of a joke to be honest. Hey are trying to market an app on the app store as a 'free' app. Not offering sign up also means they don't have to add the 'offers in app purchases'. So they're advertising the app as free. Even though its $99 a year. Apples 30% cut is obscene and should be less. But Hey are using a 'free' label to market their app.

The point of this website is precisely to show there are apps labeled as free but requires additional paying membership to use it.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#120

Post by lifty »

mns wrote: post #93
bsaul wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose you’re not affected by app store policies. Otherwise you’d be extremely grateful to DHH to step up and fight publicly, instead of trying to deal with apple in private or just cave in. It has never felt so close to actually breaking up apple tight grip on its developer community, and it’s all thanks to him.

Because they are being ridiculous already. It’s one thing to help developers and try to bring up their stories and issues with the App Store, it’s another thing to come up with ridiculous examples (Tesla, banking apps, AirBnB and so on, that have nothing to to with SaaS, subscriptions and IAP) and this insane campaign for their own product.

What about Netflix and Amazon? Those examples seem very valid to me.
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