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Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

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Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#281

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

learc83 wrote: post #276
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a bad business model to me. That market segment exists because of the walled garden - remove it, and it no longer exists.

That makes no sense. Apple didn't create the market segment, but because those people choose to use iPhone, you can't sell them an email service that doesn't work on iPhone. If 80% of people making more than $100k a year use iPhones and Apple disappeared, the market segment of people making more than $100k a year wouldn't disappear.

> That makes no sense. Apple didn't create the market segment, but because those people choose to use iPhone, you can't sell them an email service that doesn't work on iPhone.

Make the email service work on iPhone. There are more than 2,000,000 apps in the App Store. There's no reason to think they're being unfair with that many in there. If you can't make an app and follow the rules there, tough luck. It's not fair to the developers that don't make shovelware otherwise.

> If 80% of people making more than $100k a year use iPhones and Apple disappeared, the market segment of people making more than $100k a year wouldn't disappear.

Someone would step in and provide another walled garden with the same effect - because the consumer will want a better experience. Apple offers that experience. And if that means Shovelware 2.0 doesn't make it, well, let's be honest. It wasn't all that revolutionary.

In any case, crap apps would flood the market - consumers would get worse experiences, and be less likely to buy apps. Free apps will decimate quality applications. And you'll get the playstore or android, a malware infested UI nightmare.

Apple is the "big bad" now, make a crappy app that doesn't follow easy rules, it's Apple's fault. Yea, not buying it. 2,000,000 made it. It's not that restrictive.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#282

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

learc83 wrote: post #229
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is simply not true. There are more on the android platform, and therefore enough for viability. The reality is people want all the benefits of the iOS world without paying anything for it.

>There are more on the android platform, and therefore enough for viability. Is that true for customers who are interested in a high end email service that costs $100 a year? I'd wager that the vast majority of people in that segment are on iPhones.

Honestly, I don't think that segment really exists. The ones that would search that out will just as likely be on android as iPhone.

If 33% of such an app is enough to cause this much angst, it makes me think it just isn't that popular.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#283

Post by root_axis »

thephyber wrote: post #272
root_axis wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that translate into support for google?

If you spend money or attention on a site that pays Google as a vendor, that is quite obviously indirect support of Google. Perhaps we are just quibbling about which definition of the word "support"? In which case I agree that there is one definition of support in which you are right and another in which your parent is right.

My understanding is that Firebase is free. However, even if it wasn't I still think the link is tenuous to the point of meaningless. Spending attention on HN does not make google any richer, it stretches the definition of the word "support" in a way that misses the point within the context of boycotting a company. If every HN reader quit the site today only a Firebase SRE would take notice, if every HN reader quit using Gmail it'd cost google a considerable amount of money.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#284

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

learc83 wrote: post #278
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an alternative - Android. You aren't forced to pay the Apple tax, there is a far, far more popular alternative there. If we took this argument and extended it, no business would survive. This is like saying Toyota has a monopoly on it's car transmissions. of course it does - it decides what transmission goes in. Your idea would force it to accept all manufacturers of transmissions.

>If we took this argument and extended it, no business would survive. You can "extend" any argument to an absurd extreme. >This is like saying Toyota has a monopoly on it's car transmissions. of course it does - it decides what transmission goes in. Your idea would force it to accept all manufacturers of transmissions. It's more like if Toyota installed a radio that blocked transmission of all radio shows that didn't…

> You can "extend" any argument to an absurd extreme.

It isn't absurd - it's unfair to transmission manufacturers that they have to follow Toyota's rules! The horror! Everything should be allowed for everyone! Otherwise it's oppression! It's not my crappy business model, no, I can't take responsibility.

> It's more like if Toyota installed a radio that blocked transmission of all radio shows that didn't pay a percent of advertising revenue to Toyota. If they did that did that, people would complain and regulation would be an entirely possible, even likely outcome.

Perfect example to prove my point. The radio is already regulated by the FCC - if it wasn't, and anyone could stream garbage however they please, like the play store, it would be a feature in automobiles to block that out. Absolutely. And people would pay big money to get it.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#285

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

jonny_eh wrote: post #280
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Changing the rules hurts all developers who already abide by them. There's no problem with the rules. people are just entitled and think the only reason their adtech shovelware is failing is because of Apple, who is an easy target. A big baddie.

> Changing the rules hurts all developers who already abide by them. I don't follow the logic here. > people are just entitled and think the only reason their adtech shovelware is failing is because of Apple If Hey was funded by shovelware ads it would have been approved by Apple. Instead it's funded by a $99 subscription, which the developer refused to give $32 of to Apple, so it was rejected.

> I don't follow the logic here.

Developers who followed the guidelines and accepted the terms will lose if the terms are changed to benefit those who aren't in it. Apps have paid the 30% fee for years - now everyone gets a free pass? Very unfair.

> If Hey was funded by shovelware ads it would have been approved by Apple. Instead it's funded by a $99 subscription, which the developer refused to give $32 of to Apple, so it was rejected.

If you want to be listed on Amazon, you sell, you pay a fee. This is true of any storefront. You don't want to pay fees you can use CraigsList, and Hey can do some SEO and market in other ways.

It's unfair that Hey tries to work around the system that other apps have had to go through. The entitlement is absolutely insane.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#287

Post by chrisco255 »

scarface74 wrote: post #251
chrisco255 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying the answer is to break them up, but clearly as was shown with Microsoft in the 90s, they could be forced to allow competition on their devices, like Microsoft had to allow for different search engines on their browsers and different default browsers. Apple could be forced to allow alternative app stores or to stop dragging their feet on PWA features or any other number of reasonable regulations like th…

Microsoft was never required to allow multiple search engines. Nor were they required to allow other default browsers in the US. I’m sure the government has to technical wherewithal to make sure that Apple is compliant with browser standards....

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_09_...

https://www.justice.gov/atr/us-v-microsoft-courts-findings-f...

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#288

Post by WalterSear »

thebruce87m wrote: post #244
blattimwind wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's exactly the point and it even applies to Macbooks: Apple just makes some pretty average laptops with poor price-performance ratio (even in the allegedly-high-end segment) and they clearly don't have a monopoly or even significant market share [1] in that category. Apple is just somewhat unique in that there is a very vocal minority of people who have decided that they only ever want to use Apple laptop…

I don’t buy Apple laptops or any laptops Any more but it’s interesting that you cite poor price-performance. 15 years ago when I did they had great cost -performance, i.e. they held their value relative to the competition, remained usable for longer for a number of reasons and when sold actually yielded better value over the full lifecycle. Has this changed?

Yes. For one, the keyboards fail.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#289

Post by scarface74 »

chrisco255 wrote: post #287
scarface74 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft was never required to allow multiple search engines. Nor were they required to allow other default browsers in the US. I’m sure the government has to technical wherewithal to make sure that Apple is compliant with browser standards....

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_09_... https://www.justice.gov/atr/us-v-microsoft-courts-findings-f...

Care to quote the part where the US government forced the browser choice screen like the EU did?

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#290

Post by learc83 »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #284
learc83 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If we took this argument and extended it, no business would survive. You can "extend" any argument to an absurd extreme. >This is like saying Toyota has a monopoly on it's car transmissions. of course it does - it decides what transmission goes in. Your idea would force it to accept all manufacturers of transmissions. It's more like if Toyota installed a radio that blocked transmission of all radio shows that didn't…

> You can "extend" any argument to an absurd extreme. It isn't absurd - it's unfair to transmission manufacturers that they have to follow Toyota's rules! The horror! Everything should be allowed for everyone! Otherwise it's oppression! It's not my crappy business model, no, I can't take responsibility. > It's more like if Toyota installed a radio that blocked transmission of all radio shows that didn't pay a percent…

>It isn't absurd - it's unfair to transmission manufacturers that they have to follow Toyota's rules! The horror! Everything should be allowed for everyone! Otherwise it's oppression! It's not my crappy business model, no, I can't take responsibility.

Kick rocks

>Perfect example to prove my point. The radio is already regulated by the FCC - if it wasn't, and anyone could stream garbage however they please, like the play store, it would be a feature in automobiles to block that out. Absolutely. And people would pay big money to get it.

You realize that allowing a competing app store, more easily allowing side-loading apps, or not forcing apps to use apple pay for subscriptions wouldn't stop people from using the curated app store.

If as you say people would pay good money for curation if both options are available, then Apple's business model (and I'm guessing from your extreme defensiveness, yours) wouldn't suffer because people would keep voluntarily using it. No one is going to make customers side-load apps, or use a competing app store.

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